UCLA student tasered for refusing to show ID.
Friday, November 17th, 2006 - 11:09am
"UCLA student stunned by Taser plans suit"
Video of Incident:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g7zlJx9u2E
(Granted it's from a camera phone, but I think it still captures the incident well enough.)
I believe this is a huge abuse of power. It sickens me that this student was treated so violently for such a minuscule "crime". It's this kind of thing that I have been worried about since the entire " War on 'Terror' " started.
"What could be wrong? Hmm. Too many potatoes in my computer, that's it."
I can't see a connection here between this and the patriot act. Police have been whalloping mouthy students for years. I saw it many times during my student days 25 years ago.
The guy was making a huge disturbance in the library and needed to be removed. I don't know if the taser was needed or not, but how would you deal with a guy who is struggling and refusing to cooperate with your instructions as the law requires? You're either going to wrestle with him (dangerous to him), mace him (painful), or whallop him (also painful).
Technically he should have shown his ID. That's a valid request. Whether or not he should have been tasered is a different question.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
I just wonder why they couldn't get his ID in a different way. It doesn't HAVE to be a student ID does it?
"What could be wrong? Hmm. Too many potatoes in my computer, that's it."
On a university campus yes it does. As they said in the article it is standard policy to make sure that only students are in the library after 11. Now if he had proof he was the only one asked for ID then he may have a leg to stand on.
Still, he should have shown his ID.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
According to the article he was leaving when he saw the cops. Granted, this may be a not-so-objective point of view but the point I am trying to make is that the taser was way too much for a kid without ID, even if he is acting like an idiot. Police officers are supposed to be able to deal with situations like this without escalating them further than the need to be. They could have just physically picked him up and carried him, for that matter. Near the end the officer threatened to taser a person who was in the crowd that asked for his badge number. This is just ridiculous.
"What could be wrong? Hmm. Too many potatoes in my computer, that's it."
As I said, them asking for ID is fine. Them tasing the guy may not be, but we don't know the full details yet.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
Hey, man. It's, like, California, man. They've gotta stand up to the Man, man.
Sorry. I had a roommate from UCLA (who then went on to Berkley), and I'm just alittle sick of the 'fight the system' mentality. You couldn't pay me enough to work as copper on that campus.
And this 'kid' isn't a child. This is a grown adult, who should know better.
Quintin_Stone wrote:
The student (an adult) made two decisions that contributed to this: 1) He refused to produce ID, which the police have a right to ask for, and 2) He refused to stand up and cooperate. The Taser was invented to provide a non-lethal device that doesn't cause permanent harm. In the 'old days', he would have been hit with a billy-club to coerce his cooperation.
This wasn't an abuse of power. The video shows they gave him ample opportunity to cooperate, and he chose not to do so.
"It's so much easier to suggest solutions when you don't know too much about the problem." - Malcolm Forbes
And the threat to the bystander?
"Sometimes I go around saying, 'Kommisar Paulson has seized the commanding heights of the economy!'" - Paul Krugman, asked if recent changes to banking are socialistic.
Was exactly that...a threat. It looked like there were about ten cops and a few hundred students. And all of the students were crowding around and fairly offended. The bystander was told by the cop to back up and wasn't complying and was threatened.
You do understand that it is the threat of authority and the implied force behind it that keeps the peace, right? If the bystander had been in the cop's face and the cop threw the bystander to the ground and pistol-whipped him, then let's talk abuse. But threatening someone who is non-cooperative is not.
"It's so much easier to suggest solutions when you don't know too much about the problem." - Malcolm Forbes
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True. But screaming "This is the patriot act in action" and "give me your badge number!" when the cops trying to get someone under control cements the "students are a bunch of know-it-all little whiners who never got punched by an out of control suspect" meme in the cops' minds. We're not talking about two groups of people with a long history of mutual respect here.
The kid getting tazered was the one saying the patriot act bit. The others just wanted the badge number.
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Maybe so, but I don't remember anyone shouting back, "The patriot act has nothing to do with this- just shut the f*ck up and do what they say so I can get back to writing my paper, you obnoxious a-hole."
Geez...I'm agreeing with Johnny on this...whodathunkit?
After having been there (UCLA '96) and knowing what the students can be like, the kid who got zapped deserved to get zapped. Like Johnny said, he had ample opportunity to comply, and flat out refused to do so. Not only that, he did so in a manner that, had I been that officer, I'd have felt at least a little apprehension that the guy was going to start something.
In addition, the crowd of other students wasn't helping matters, so I can also understand the officers threatening them with a taser shot under the circumstances. 10 cops, 100 students, it could easily go bad without making something happen to keep the crowd from rioting.
I don't feel for the kid at all. I do feel like I should be shaking my cane at him and telling him to get the hell off my lawn, though.
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This is just all kinds of f*cked up.
Here, I'll edit and give more of my thoughts. Yes, call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, I don't care. Here's a write-up that mostly echoes my thoughts on this (though given the rules of the computer lab, it can be argued that in this particular case, the cops had a valid reason to ask for ID).
Yes, that's a "conspiracy theory" website, and before anyone discards my view out of hand over it, no, I don't agree with or believe everything that appears anywhere, be it a conspiracy site or Fox News or a White House press release. This is just one of the many resources, both mainstream and alternative, that I turn to in order to try to piece together the truth, since I'm not willing to accept "official" sources as the unquestionable truth of what happens in this world.
Any of you "the cops were justified" people actually watch the video? He's tazered at least twice after he is already handcuffed for not standing up. Not for resisting or fighting back, but for lying there crying like an 8 year old.
Apparently it's a crime to be unable to comply with an order to stand up when your body is recovering from a severe shock (which can, depending on the person, take a few minutes to wear off sufficiently).
Screw that. If I don't want to get up because I'm lazy while being arrested I fully concede that you have every right to drag my non-compliant ass out of the building. You sure as hell don't have the right to beat the crap out of me / torture me with a stun gun until I piss myself. The tazer is not a god-damn cattle prod.
Sure, but I didn't hear an eight year old crying on it (I have an 8 year old and am familiar with the sound). He sounded like a young guy who was violently refusing to do what he's required to do by law. What is the alternative you guys are proposing? Sure, the cops can wrestle with him. But that's going to involve pain for him, too. And if he dislocates a shoulder or cracks a rib or injures one of the cops, that's cool because at least the cops didn't taser him?
Too bad it fails to meet that standard on an alarming basis. A gunshot to the foot would be safer than getting hit with a taser. It is not a "less-than-lethal" weapon, it is a lethal weapon.
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From the floor? In handcuffs? I hear a lot of "stand up or we will taser you," but not much in the way of "please stop kicking us with your mad kung-fu skills."
"Show me your papers!"
I can't help but be reminded of a premise put forth by a very good modern philosopher. I haven't been able to think of too many cases where it doesn't apply, and this one certainly fits.
"I like to hear people talking when they're not talking to me," I said. "It's soothing to know that I don't have to listen." -- Bill Harris describing a truism.
You don't need to get to the point of "please stop kicking us with your mad kung fu skills" before you justify the use of force. There's no law saying cops need to get injured dealing with a-holes. If the guy is struggling when he's on the ground, he's going to be doing the same thing when he gets up.
Let's take a hypothetical. If we knew the guy was going to break somebody's wrist or clock someone in the face while struggling after he got up- a cop's, a bystander's- because he was thrashing around in a crowd, would a tasering, mace, or a clubbing be justified?
So you'd rather be shot than tasered?
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Absolutely. I have no problem with the justifiable use of force. Hell if they had tazered him to subdue him so he could be handcuffed that's fine. However...
That's from http://www.blakeross.com/2006/11/17/on-the-ucla-tasering/ which was linked from Fark.com
Now obviously that's not a sworn statement or anything, but if it went down like that man says it did (which I can believe from the video) then the additional shocking of the guy seems way out of line. If the officers were in reasonable fear of injury to themselves or others and could prevent that through prudent use of their taser as you assert, then congrats to them on a job well done. This seems like great fodder for a televised/covered trial so maybe we'll get some better idea of what exactly happened from it.
He's hardcore. Or maybe he just hates his toes. I know I would much rather be shocked than have a hot piece of metal shoved through my body, breaking bones, rending flesh and causing potential permanent crippling injury.
On a somewhat related note, the people who make the Taser are awesome. Check out: http://www.taser.com/tasercam/index.htm
It's a Taser that makes a video/audio recording every time it's used. "The new TASER Cam™ offers increased accountability - not just for officers, but for the people they arrest." It's a great idea and I hope that's adopted by any law enforcement agencies that use tasers now.
I'd rather a weapon advertised as "less-than-lethal" function as such. For now, it's like repeatedly subjecting someone to a defibrilator. I'll take my chances with a bullet to a non-lethal area than a taser directly to the chest.
"Men like sex, thus boobies! Oogaba!" - dejanzie
"If ads put your sanity to the test
come on down to Rat Boy's nest!
light up a stogie, and soon you'll see
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At the end of the day, regardless of whether you think the police used too much force, the man is ultimately responsible for this spinning out of control. He made a choice to not show ID and he made a choice to resist arrest. I really don't have much sympathy for him.
"It's so much easier to suggest solutions when you don't know too much about the problem." - Malcolm Forbes
True, but as said, that does not excuse the level of force involved. The subject here was not high on PCP or brandishing a weapon; he was essentially conducting an act of (very whiney) disobedience, which does not justify the use of a lethal weapon against him. Nine times out of ten, suspects walk because of police misconduct, and this guy has every right to take them to the bank over this one.
"Men like sex, thus boobies! Oogaba!" - dejanzie
"If ads put your sanity to the test
come on down to Rat Boy's nest!
light up a stogie, and soon you'll see
how rock can be commercial-free!
'I'd hit it!'" - HP Lovesauce