The RotK Thread
Wednesday, December 17th, 2003 - 5:53am
Okay, so here's the official RotK discussion thread (TM) for those who want to talk about the movie. Tada.
Seen the movie last night and I'm still not quite sure what to think about it. The first half was slower than expected. The battle scenes were well done, but I guess that's not really surprising. Like in TTT Jackson did a good job about creating a certain tension right before the action begins. And the riders of Rohan ripping into the forces of Mordor looked great. (Although I'd recommend reading a book on strategy and tactics because going straight into the oliphant stampede instead of attacking over the flanks is propably the dumbest idea imaginable.)
The whole ending was longer than it should have been, IMO. Okay, he may have been close to the book here (or so I was told), but it feld stretched and I wasn't definitely the only one who felt like that. I can also see why they cut Saruman's part, it would have made it even longer. The point that it was around 4AM at that time might have factored in though. Overall I find TTT (Extended) to be the best movie in the trilogy.
And boy, the applauding people in the audience were annoying. Must have happened at least 20 times throughout the movie. In FotR there was only a single moment where the audience applauded (after Aragorn chopped off the head of youknowwho). I don't mind enthusiastic fans in general, but enough is enough.
Im tired so I will try not to be cynical of your point of view there Spunior
Ive been a fan of the books since I could read. Having a rather... interesting childhood I put much of my values into fictional stories of honor and virtue (wasnt much in the real world that I could find at the time) and LOTR had always been my favorite. So yea, my take on the movie last night is a rather biased one.
Of all three I have to say I have the least amount of complaints with this one. I thought it was very well done and I can forgive most (not all
) of the things that Jackson changed.
Now as for the story, I can see many people not really ""getting"" or ""appreciating"" how some of the issues were resolved in the end because the actual ""War of the Ring"" or the history surrounding the purpose of the ring is very small in terms of the history of Middle Earth. But the War of the Ring itself is a tale of the conclusions of many issues, one being the ring, another being the dwindling power of the elves in Middle Earth due to the one ring and still another about an heir to the throne of Gondor... descendents of the race of Numeanor (closest that mortals have come to the blessed realm).
It is also a tale about honor, responsibility and trust when dealing with a very great evil that can corrupt anything... anybody. I feel that in the end, Jackson really brought the trust and love between Frodo and Sam to a level rarely seen in a movie. Except for my wife, I dont feel that I have that kind of relationship with anyone in the world like what Frodo and Sam had, let alone seen that kind of true emotion between characters on film.
Geek moment: Sam is the only person in the entire history of the ring that had to bare its responsibility and was able to give it up freely (he used the ring too in order to follow the orcs into Minas Morgul). His honor and love of Frodo let him overcome the corrupted power of the ring... and I think the movie showed his struggle very well. In your deepest and most honest opinion, do you think you could give up the most powerful object in the world? For honor, love? (maybe too deep but these are things I think about and judge myself by).
I wont go on to bore you with the reasonings for all the different resolutions unless you want me to
(I would love to actually if you would let me). Albeit to say, I thought it was one of the best movies Ive ever seen and the special effects were incredible. Yes tactics can be second guessed, but hey... if you have 20, 10 story mammoths running full speed in your direction what would you do beside turn tale and run your ass off (I like to think I wouldnt do that but... Ill never find out will I haha)?
PAR
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For all who live in such times, it is not for them to decide. All we get to decide is what to do with the time given to us
The ending in the book goes on for well over 100 pages, so with that in mind I assume in the movie it is mercifully short
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I thought it was the perfect film.
After it was done I sat back and realized it had covered everything I wanted done and done an amazing job at it.
I thought the ending was great, I was hoping for a long ending with tons of resolution and thats what I got. I didnt miss any of the subjects Jackson left out(burning of the shire for instance), and thought he just did an amazing job. I cant say enough good things about it. Its a perfect ending to the trilogy and I have no problem saying my favorite film of the three.
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Par, don''t get me wrong. I liked the movie and will watch it twice. I meant to say I''m not sure whether I''d rate it above FoTR (which did a good job at establishing the story and the characters) or not. As for the ''strategy'' part, that was simply a side note, not a major complaint.
I still dont see why Jackson didnt put in the reason for Denethor''s demise.
Just in case:
SPOILER******************
My wife and a good friend of mine both went with me last night and both really liked the show (wife cried quite a bit). One of the major confusing parts they they both commented on was why Denethor acted as he did.
Well, explaining it to them that he had Mina Tiriths'' Palantir and used it w/out knowing that Sauron was corrupting its visions... he went mad. He saw the inevitable destruction of Minas Tirith (in a sense the same way that Pippen did in the movie) and believed that nothing could stop it. Thats the reason for not lighting the beacons.
Anway, this leads to another confusing point about that movie that could have been answered easily. The question was raised.. why would Sauron herald the call of Aragorn at the gates when he supposedly ""saw"" Frodo on the steps of Mount Doom? Why would he attack?
Well, in the book Aragorn is the rightful heir of the Palantir''s and Gandalf submits to Aragorns authority over the one Denethor had. In order to draw Saurons forces out to give Frodo a clear path to Mt Doom (which in the book was a LOT longer than just a scene), Aragorn used the Orb and reveals himself as the lost heir of Isildur and ""suggests"" that he is in posession of the ring. That draws the armies out.
Gosh, I could go on forever here... sorry
PAR
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For all who live in such times, it is not for them to decide. All we get to decide is what to do with the time given to us
Just as an aside, I had a friend refer to this part of the book as ""the razing of the Shire"", the other day. It isn''t the ""razing"" or the ""burning"" (which both mean the same thing - destruction) of the Shire, but rather the ""scouring of the Shire"", meaning ""cleansing"".
The Shire hasn''t been destroyed by anyone, it has been infested by thugs, who have to removed by force - cleaned out, if you were.
A small point, but I see that a lot, and always wonder how long it''s been since people read the book.
Reagan understood that the key to peace was never arms control. Security had nothing to do with the number of weapons, it had everything to do with the intention and power of those who possessed them. - Charles Krauthammer
Loved it. Just beautiful film making. I''m almost at a loss for words to describe how much i like it.
I personally felt the ending was not long enough if anything. There were a lot of things that were not addressd here that I hope the EE will take care of.
Anyway 5 out of 5. A damn near perfect movie IMO.
"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin
It was good. I''m seeing it again tonight and then I''ll give my review.
For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988
It was an incredible movie and an amazing end to what, in my opinion, has to be the best dam trilogy ever made! I doubt I will ever see anything that will ever compare to these three movies.
I am sure there will be movies out there that I will enjoy, but LOTR really has blown me away. I can''t wait for the Extended Edition of ROTK and I can''t wait, and I hope dearly that Peter Jackson does make The Hobbit, and soon!
"Can I have a job? I donut have much experiences, butt I always use an spellchecker spellchecker on my articles." - Sway
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I''m avoiding this until next week so as not to run into the armor-clad loons.
"Men like sex, thus boobies! Oogaba!" - dejanzie
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come on down to Rat Boy's nest!
light up a stogie, and soon you'll see
how rock can be commercial-free!
'I'd hit it!'" - HP Lovesauce
You know, the costumed folks at the Trilogy showing I went to didn''t wear actual armor, but one guy sitting in my row had a scabbard that he was wearing from his belt as a part of the costume.
That didn''t bother me.
It also didn''t bother me that he accidentally bumped into me with the scabbard once as he was walking back to his seat.
What did bother me was that he apologized for it, saying ""I didn''t mean to bump you with my sheath.""
...sorry, dirty mind and all that.
Anyway, back on topic, the movie was more than I had hoped for. I kept hyping myself up for it, knowing it would exceed my expectations, and sure enough, it did.
Yes, there were changes, and yes there were some elements missing, but for making the film fit the 3.5 hour timeframe and really work as a film, I thought it was superb. I still look forward to the Extended Edition, but I''ve seen RotK twice already (saw it with some friends tonight) and it is honestly my favorite movie.
Ever.
Though I really consider the trilogy to be one big movie, and altogether is how it truly is my favorite. We''ve just been witness to movie history over the past two years.
spoilers spoilers spoilers. so there.
My wife didn''t notice how long it was and she was waiting for Frodo to leave on the ship. Not so the group of 13 year olds girls a few rows in front of us. As the ship sailed off into the sunset, and the scene changed to yet more ending (Sam''s house) one of them exclaimed, ""Oh my lord!!"" which thankfully didn''t spoil the mood for me. I just wonder how many younger folks will think ""damnit they shoulda ended it after the battle."" Cause I heard many folks under age of 15 uttering such comments.
That said I loved it. I loved every freaking moment of it. One of the things I love about Jackson''s direction and the editing is that even though they cut lots of things for pace...he isn''t afraid to slow things down and take time with stuff that''s important. In FoTR it was taking time to get to love the Shire. In RotK it was really taking the time to say goodbye.
I wonder if Frodo''s and Sam''s relationship goes beyond any thoughts about ""how"" they love each other. I just don''t see anyone else in the fellowship understanding what they went through together, which you can see in their eyes as the fellowship gathers for the last time. Achieving that just with the look between Frodo and Sam was...staggering to me.
My favorite moment, however, is when Aragorn leapt forward and shouted, ""For Frodo!"" and Pippin and Merry immediately followed...ready to take on the entire 20,000+ horde by themselves. I felt chills for minutes it seemed like. My heart was thumping. I was completely...enthralled in the moment and aware of nothing else. Just freaking amazing.
Spoilers BEWARE!
I nearly lost it on several occasions while watching the movie and when I mean loose it I mean cry.
However I will start with moments I just thought were really fantastic!
The way they started the movie, I don''t think I need to say anymore about that!
When Pippen is singing to the steward of gondor and Farimar is charging towards Osgiliath.
The battle at Minas Tirith. Especially the portion with the Oliphants! It was so well done!
When Gollum finally gets his hands on the ring. What an amazing shot!
Now for the tear jerkers.
When everyone Frodo wakes up and the fellowship all end up in the room.
When everyone in Minas Tirith bows down to the hobbits.
When the Hobbits say goodbye to Frodo at the end.
I just couldn''t help but tear up a little for most of the last 20 minutes, probably partly due to the fact that the whole Trilogy was coming to an end.
"Can I have a job? I donut have much experiences, butt I always use an spellchecker spellchecker on my articles." - Sway
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For portions of the movie I was simultaneously stunned, choked up, and...caught up in a wondrous amazement.
Yes, I could gush on for hours. Guess I should go see it a few...dozen more times this weekend.
Interesting about the getting emotional part. I feel like I am in touch with my emotions but have yet to feel that way in the first two movies. If the third does it to me however, then that would be a huge compliment to the movie, for me at least.
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To me, that was the saddest part of all. To have finally seen the epic come to a close, and realize that''s it. No more. Unless we get ''The Hobbit'', of course...
All in all, though, a fabulous movie. I can''t wait to see the extended version though!
Money can't buy you happiness...but it can buy you a boat big enough to sell right up next to it!-David Lee Roth
Doesnt start here till the 26th. Hobbit hoarding bastards.
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Don''t be too sad. Jackson should start shooting the Hobbit in the next few years
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Saw it last night and loved it.
But I kept wondering how Sloth from the Goonies ended up as general of Sauron''s army.
"That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history. "
- Aldous Huxley
LOL, i never made the connection, but damn if you''re not right Ockham. I knew he seemed familiar. Poor Sloth got corrupted by The Eye.
That''s a good point, Roo. The presentation of these more solemn, thoughful, tender moments worked so well for characterization and the emphasis of the themes in play. Perhaps most importantly, the obvious love Peter Jackson and company have for the source material shone through during these moments.
It''s been eight hours since I screened the film, and so many images and moments are running through my head. It really was a transporting experience.
The question of the ending. It worked for me- each closing scene was quieter and more personal than the previous, bringing the large dramatis personae down to its core character. Unfortunately, I also had to whizz something terrible by the time we got to the Grey Havens. There we were, on a quietly lapping shore, with a golden sunset coloring the water a deep amber... lap, lap, lap. Yes Bilbo, totter sloooowly aboard the ship. [Undo belt to relieve pressure on bladder] Ah, look, each hobbit is embraced in turn... with long, lingering close-ups. Lap, lap, trickle, lap go the golden waves. Hmm, I wonder if this water bottle is large enough to hold the tsunami of urine I''m about to expel?
Saw the movie this morning. Wow! Just wow!
When I finished watching The Two Towers I felt a little underwhelmed by the movie. Don''t get me wrong: TTT was a great movie, but for me it failed to capture the awe and wonder of Fellowship of the Ring. I think it''s due in part to the fact that there wasn''t really anything to compare FotR to when it came out. With TTT you could compare it to FotR.
Anyway, back to Return of the King. One of the best things about the movie is that it brought the feeling of awe and wonder back for me. I think that RotK is also the movie which has the largest emotional impact. There are just so many beautiful moments in this movie. The best one for me was when Frodo woke up and saw Gandalf standing next to the bed, smiling. (Gimli pecking away a tear was also a very nice touch
) And then of course there''s the fact that it was the last movie in the trilogy. Taking two years to watch all three movies, it really felt like a journey coming to an end.
I do have a few minor complaints about the movie, but those are more a matter of personal taste.
In the end, Lord of the Rings is a fantastic trilogy. Never before have fantasy movies been made with such care and on such an epic scale.
Swing harder! Swing harder!
-- Lilarcor, Baldur's Gate 2
I saw it for the second time on Thursday, and without a doubt its an even better movie the second time around. This is definately the best of the theatrical cuts, IMO.
One scene that really got me the second time around is at when the hobbits are sitting around in the Green Dragon with their ales in fornt of them in they just look so out of place and lost. In contrast to the carefree merriment of the hobbits around them. That scene just felt perfect to me.
I was also even more impressed with Eowyn''s confrontation with the Witch King. That felt like it was pulled right out of the book.
There were just so many great scenes in the movie. It''s really going to take some time and at least another viewing to absorb it all.
"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin
Well I got to see it and I liked it. The beginning was awesome. There were almost no parts in this movie where I was looking at my watch, which wasn''t the case with the first two.
I am confused on something though, didn''t Arwen kill the Witch King in the book? I just don''t remember Eowyn having that big a part. My memory is pretty hazy on the subject though.
I think the ending was good, but stretching my patience a bit. It''s sort of a catch-22, I would have liked it to end sooner than it did but I woulda been pissed if they''d left it out. I think the pacing of the ending was a major problem, it just took forever to go between each scene, cut to the next shot, whatever. It''d take 15 seconds just to stare at the blank screen, I had read the book and I still expected it to be over about 4 times before it actually was over.
It had it''s flaws, it was occasionally cheesy when compared to the book and sometimes I felt it could''ve been paced faster. However it''s definitely the best of the three and one of the best movies I have seen in a long time. I''m going to watch it again with my family. I sort of have reservations about seeing it again, I think the second time through I have a much harder time sitting there for 3 and 1/2 hours. I felt that way about TTT and FOTR, however this movie is better than both of those so I may not even notice.
My favorite part about the movie was just how jaw droppingly beautiful it was. Almost every scene looked great. All of the acting was really good too, I never wanted to stab Frodo once in this one. Great fights too. Alot of the locations were excellent, the city of the dead that Frodo and Sam came up to just looked amazing. The beginning was just perfect. Absolutely perfect!
"Poor Eli Nooo... *child starts crying*"
"Come on now, there's no need to make that kind of noise. It sounds awful and you'll upset other people." - Ionae from Spirit Engine 2
Nah. Arwen really has no part in any of the books other than a brief introduction in FotR. Eowyn killing the Witch King is almost straight out of the book. I don''t see how PJ could have stayed any more true to the source material for that scene.
"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin
Oh, well I like that scene much better then. I was expecting Liv Tyler to do it and was disappointed she didn''t. Now I''ll probably enjoy that whole scene much more.
"Poor Eli Nooo... *child starts crying*"
"Come on now, there's no need to make that kind of noise. It sounds awful and you'll upset other people." - Ionae from Spirit Engine 2
Yeah the begining of the movie was just awesome and bone chilling!
"Can I have a job? I donut have much experiences, butt I always use an spellchecker spellchecker on my articles." - Sway
Using Prayer To Microevolve Latent Antibiotic Resistance In Bacteria since 2005!
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I don''t know... I enjoyed the movie, but felt more compassion for Gollum at really any other point in either movie than I did for Smeagol in the opening of ROTK. It would have been nice to see Smeagol as a person, even if for a few minutes - instead of only presenting him as a cackling homocidal maniac.
Reagan understood that the key to peace was never arms control. Security had nothing to do with the number of weapons, it had everything to do with the intention and power of those who possessed them. - Charles Krauthammer
I''m not sure how much compassion we should feel for Smeagol. If I recall right, this scene was also pretty close to what it was in the book. It didn''t really take much for Smeagol to commit murder to posess the ring. In fact he did it before he ever layed hands on it. I say smeagol is a pretty nasty character who dosen''t deserve much sympathy.
The creature Gollum that he becomes on the other hand is a pretty twisted, sad affair. I find myself more easily able to empathize with Gollum than I could with Smeagol.
"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin
My point wasn''t necessarily that I needed to feel sympathy for Smeagol, but if all you are going to show is a giggling maniac who murders someone, I find the scene completely pointless.
Reagan understood that the key to peace was never arms control. Security had nothing to do with the number of weapons, it had everything to do with the intention and power of those who possessed them. - Charles Krauthammer