Some heat happening over at Pharaoh
Saturday, December 6th, 2003 - 7:05pm
Some discussion over at Pharaoh Productions regarding the once owner of Horizons MMORPG.
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Some discussion over at Pharaoh Productions regarding the once owner of Horizons MMORPG.
This belongs in the Games forum.
Moved
"I think Elysium has the right of it" - Certis
Hmm, one post and it''s to the front page of another forum? Porkster sounds like a good name...
The whole forum over there seems to be an anti-Horizons stroke fest.
I disagree with what you say, and I will deny, to your death, you're right to say it. - Bucky Katt
Yeah, generally speaking, I wouldn''t exactly call it objective. Horizon''s certainly isn''t perfect, and I can''t blame folks with a reasonable opinion for their purcahsing decision either way, but like every game before it it''s got some positives and some negatives.
"I think Elysium has the right of it" - Certis
Are these the same people that flooded Ion Storm''s forums over DX:IW?
"Men like sex, thus boobies! Oogaba!" - dejanzie
"If ads put your sanity to the test
come on down to Rat Boy's nest!
light up a stogie, and soon you'll see
how rock can be commercial-free!
'I'd hit it!'" - HP Lovesauce
Ouch some biting words (I won''t quote here). It''s a fun thread if you don''t know the history or if you do know the original story... clearly a few folks still are paying some therapy bills over what happened in yesteryear.. .course that does not make them wrong
. I certainly don''t know the truth of what happened but I will say that DA''s story has remained pretty consistent over the years. Heh course I don''t think his new company has produced much yet either so who knows.
-Griffon
Did Samurai Jack ever get back to the past?
You can take anything from anytime and make it sound like the worst crap in the world if you put out just a little effort. It''s pretty obvious they hated the game before it even reached beta, and anything that happens now just ""proves"" what they have ""been saying all along."" If it''s the worst MMO ever made, they feel vindicated. And if it''s the best ever made, they''ll still find a spin that makes them ""right.""
I disagree with what you say, and I will deny, to your death, you're right to say it. - Bucky Katt
Dev teams and management staff are always subject to change during any long term project or just in general at any company..
Sounds like certain people over there never ""got over it""
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
85's face the truth you're too dumb.
http://www.myspace.com/armyofthepharaohs
Mmm that tends to be less true at small companies and it''s fairly unusual for the founder to be drummed out, but in such cases not so unusual for a lot of the senior folks to walk after the drumming. The whole thing is pretty convoluted now anyway.
. Ultimately of course the public will cast the only vote that counts, with their wallets.
I certainly would not hang around those forums talking about Horizons and expect to get any less then an absolutely 100% bitter biases opinion
-Griffon
Did Samurai Jack ever get back to the past?
I''ve been at 3 startups...ranging from 40-250 people at peaks...at all 3 the original founder(s) was ousted and replaced by different CEOs (Presidents).
Basically once enough Venture or Angel investors get involved and you have a Board of Directors..frequently the original founder(s) are under alot of pressure at that point..and the people who control the investment get nervous and want their own people in there.
I''ve been working now for 2 years at my current job and as a Venture Capital company.. let me tell you..thats the first thing we look at.. Do the founder(s) have the ability to take the company beyond the idea and formation stage to profatability.. frequently the answer is no or we''d just rather have our own person in there.
Ironically...it''s actually less frequent at larger companies... since once you get established and have profits..revenue etc.. and get over the hump..things settle down.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
85's face the truth you're too dumb.
http://www.myspace.com/armyofthepharaohs
I don''t know I have worked for a lot of big companies and through the inevitable re-org process Dev teams and management staff are moved like water through the sewer. Smaller companies tend to keep folks closer during the meat of the project (baring financial failure of the company) because there is less resource to replace people and bring them up to speed.
If I founder is smart about how the company is built getting rid of them should be pretty much cause things to cave in, clearly not the case with AE, and David Allen reputable had a lot of his own capital invested and lost that as well.
Anyway, my observation has been not that it dosn''t happen but rather it happens less then a large company plays shuffle board with bodies, which is what I was contrasting.
-Griffon
Did Samurai Jack ever get back to the past?
If David Allen had remained in charge, the game never would have seen the light of day. I dont know the dude personally, but from what I''ve seen, he isnt a finisher. They brought people in that know how to compromise in order to finish the product.
Being fangoriously devoured by a gelatinous monster.
Exactly they brought people in with industry experience from previous MMORPG''s and for better or worse they finished the product and had the experience and knowledge to get the job done in all aspects of the process which in an MMORPG are quite extensive..
My group was a potential investor..for reason I won''t divuldge we didnt invest but I spoke to James Jones and David Bowman several times and from conversations and going over their financials and their package they certainly have the knowledge and insight to accomplish this daunting task.
Whether or not certain design decisions will work out in the end remains to be seen..but I don''t feel simply David Allen being forced out killed the project.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
85's face the truth you're too dumb.
http://www.myspace.com/armyofthepharaohs
I think the project lost a lot vision when he left and what we are given in the end is a very mediocre half baked lifeless offering (IMO of course), whether these two things are truly connected I can''t really say, nor can anyone else without sort of interdiminsonal magic looking glass or some such, just my impression. Did it kill it, obviously not... but it certainly irrevocable changed it.
Speculating on if Allen would have delivered or not seems pretty pointless to me, the situation is what is and both sides tell different stories, frankly he really ddin''t have control things all that long (what 6 months?). At the same dime though I don''t really see much going on with his new company either though and so that tells it''s own story.
A point of order though, for better or worse David Allen hired both Jones and Bowman.
Anyway it''s all water under the bridge at this point, personal I think the product speaks for it''s self and the final judgment in that regard is ultimately a matter of personal taste. Honestly, besides the end product I don''t have stake in this except as matter of historical curiosity since became such a sabbatical.
-Griffon
Did Samurai Jack ever get back to the past?
Vision loses its luster after a while when things become downright unpheasable to accomplish.
Allen is a ""What if?"" guy. ""What if?"" guys dont make good finishers. Also, ""What if?"" guys are also believe it or not, a dime a dozen. All you need is an opinion and some conviction.
From my experience in the games industry, finishers are much more valuable and rare. It takes a special mindset to keep in mind what has to be done and to count the dwindling minutes before the product is out the door. Making these compromises and still maintaining the quality of the product is a rare priceless talent.
Being fangoriously devoured by a gelatinous monster.
I always finish my dinner.
I'm bringing sexy back!
I have no vision and no good ideas for games, but I enjoy bullying people in to doing their jobs and get things done. Can I work in the game industry? I promise I won''t leave any bruises on the developers.
"Anakin, as embodied by [Hayden] Christensen, is the kind of needlessly moody kid you might see getting punched out in a Dairy Queen parking lot."
"”Paul Tatara on SW:Episode II