EVE Investment Bank Scam
So many of you have now probably read about the EVE Investment Bank scam:
http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/08/23/1918246.shtml
So what do you think?
In short, a player created a "bank" in which people could invest their ISK (in game cash) and he would promise a return. To very few people's surprise (well, at least not to mine) the guy just walked with the cash.
What makes this interesting is that the sum involved would have translated intou about $100K if he'd dribbled it out on eBay.
I will admit to not knowing everything about this, but my belief is that nothing this guy did was technically against the rules. I believe it would probably not be against the rules of WoW, Everquest, or any other MMORPG that I've played (again, I'll be reading some legalese over the next little while to think that through). I also haven't seen (someone link me?) a public statement about this from CCP, nor, in fact, would I recommend one if I was the PR agent for CCP (a nice guy named Doug I had the honor of chatting up at Gen Con).
This strikes me as a classic caveat emptor situation. This guy is an IN GAME criminal, but Eve is a game rife with pirates and PvP conflict. So if its not against the rules to simply KILL a player (or, OK, waste his ship) then why would it be against the rules to simply be a con artist. The actor in question did not, to my knowledge, hack anything but peoples gullability.
Thoughts?
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"Think of it as 'grinding SO rep in the Kitchen instance.' " - Montalban
I don't think it was a violation of the game at all, especially given that the very strength of EVE is the player-run and -policed galaxy.
However, it's also an argument for coding games in a way that players can see the account name of the person in addition to just their character name. That way they'd at least have to buy a new account to get away with not having players retaliate against them.
I dont know any more about this than anyone else, and I've never even played the game, but here are some thoughts:
Apparently, everyone suckered by this guy felt that charging interest on a loan is an acceptable in-game practice. Defaulting on that loan seems an obvious potential outcome. Unless he somehow successfully impersonated an "official, sanctioned EVE bank" I don't see what he did that should be punishable by anything more than people killing his character every chance they get. If he pretended to represent CCP, then I can see CCP getting involved.
Also given what I know (from the boards here) about EVE, in a game with piracy and corporations, how could you NOT be wary about getting scammed ? To an outsider this seems to be in the spirit of the game.
If I'd known it was harmless, I would have killed it myself
Yup. One word sums this up: suckers.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
Eve's makers have been very hands-off in intervening in in-game scams that happen. They really let the players run it.
Yep, there are several different stories of things like this happening. All CCP says is, think before you act.
So are you interested in a bridge?
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing noise they make as they fly by." -- Douglas Adams
That depends. I've really been looking to invest in a bridge, but sadly all of my money is stuck in an account overseas. I can't transfer it to myself, but if you could send me your name, address, phone # and bank account number, I think we could work something out.
If I'd known it was harmless, I would have killed it myself
I think it's awesome. I've tried to get into Eve twice, if for no other reason than the hands off approach that CCP takes. Well, that and giant freaking spaceships. But the learning curve proved too daunting for someone that could only devote very very limited time to it.
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I find it ironic anytime a healthy vaccinated person bitches about science...on the internet. - MaverickDago
Eve allows this stuff, entirely. It's like the song..."Hey all right...If I get by...It's mine!". There are many things that contribute to the atmosphere in Eve, and one of them is not knowing if you can trust anyone. In WoW, if you group with strangers, or someone you vaguely know, the worst you risk is a ninja-looting coward. In Eve, you take your life in your hands, hitting low space with acquaintances.
That's one of the reasons I'm nervous about going pvp, actually. But I'm getting over it.
Buzz, the game is FAR easier to learn now than in the past. You can get through the tutorial in an afternoon, and end up with an item that sells for 90K to 900k or so, depending on the drop. And of course any of us would be happy to stake you, and we usually have several folks in the GWJ chat channel of an evening, AND we have several different guilds among us, at least two of which will take relative noobs. (The time thing is for you to judge, of course.)
During the South Sea bubble in 18th century England, people were able to get funding for all sorts of crazy schemes.
One guy managed to get cash for a scheme which, he said, would make people very rich - but they weren't allowed to know what it was. Investment in his scheme cost £100, but people could join for £2 deposit. He told them he'd tell what the scheme was in a month (I think), at which time he'd get the other £98 from them.
You can guess what happened.
Rhymes with 'yidcaff'. I don't use smilies. Imagine a wink and a wry grin at the end of most of my sentences. I don't like using exclamation marks either. I'm more friendly than you imagine.
The bubble, for those who wondered: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_sea_bubble
Rhymes with 'yidcaff'. I don't use smilies. Imagine a wink and a wry grin at the end of most of my sentences. I don't like using exclamation marks either. I'm more friendly than you imagine.
If this happened in the real world, it would be fraud, and the perpetrator would be subject to criminal penalties and civil liability. As I understand it, Eve cash is directly translatable to real world currency, so the people that were defrauded suffered real world losses. Whether or not it's against the terms of service or the spirit of the game, it is definitely criminally actionable. Assuming you could find a prosecutor who could understand what the hell you're talking about.
"All that time you waste dating and having sex could be better spent scouring the web for new game developer press releases." - Quintin_Stone
No, since you are not allowed to sell your assets outside the game world, that's a violation of CCP's proprietary rights to everything in the game.
You'd be claiming to have been defrauded of materials that only have real-world value when traded fraudulently, exposing yourself to a lawsuit by CCP. As I read it, anyway.
Okay, I thought this was the game that encouraged real-world buying and selling.
"All that time you waste dating and having sex could be better spent scouring the web for new game developer press releases." - Quintin_Stone
Real world buying and selling is not tolerated by CCP except in a couple of issues, AFAIK: game time cards in exchange for isk(in game currency) and buying characters. Both of these types of transactions can be found in the trade section of eve-online.com's forum. They are bannable offenses if conducted outside of the game or the official forum.
As for the learning curve, I have people in my corp that have played for a year and they still run into things that they have no clue about. Again, having a corp or at least some sort of support group (GWJ channel ftw!) is critical.
Before the EIB scam, there was another IPO scam that was perpetuated. I can't recall which corp it was that did it but there was a big brouhaha on the eve-o forum because a GM stepped in and actually gave compensation towards the victims. I believe that GM was pretty new to the game and CCP has not made any announcements regarding IPO scams.
Finally, there are a lot of people interested in hunting the scammer down. In fact, he even put a bounty on his own head so that people may exact retribution and compensation. The problem is, you have to hunt him down. Last I heard, he was headed deep into lawless space. Frankly, I have the guy on my ingame friends list. I did not get scammed but I'll be shooting him on sight. Even if only for the bounty.
"Fine. Take her out to lunch and then at an opportune lull in the conversation poke your finger directly in her anus. Chances are she'll leave you alone after that. If not, hey buttsex!" - ColdForged, on how to turn women away and/or get buttsex
Yeah, it's funny. You can't actually solicit for a pyramid scheme in-game. You can, however, lie about your desire to steal everything someone gives you.
You also can't twink a character for the purpose of preparing it for sale. In fact, you are not supposed to give anyone anything without getting something in return. That's something that it seems would only apply after the fact.
Did anyone mention Phantom or Gizmondo?
Quote from a conversation about the Flagship forum closure:
LobersterMobster: Official forums are closing today.
Farscry: Holy crap, what?!
LobesterMobster: OFFICIAL FORUMS ARE CLOSING TODAY!
Here's a google-cache link of a story of the first "big" Eve Scam. It's an amazing story with the protagonist eventually dropping his entire haul on (300 million ISK) on some newbie and then leaving the game. Great read over your morning coffee.
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That was pretty damn cool. Great link, thanks.
Xbox Live: StaatsM
After playing the game for a while you learn, who to trust and who not to trust.
I was basically ripped of in my first corp/guild. Lost like 10 mil ISK about 1 week of work (when i was a noob)
I learned my lesson, and i haven't been fooled since. Luckily i am member of a corp, where the veterans have flown together for almost 2 years now. That core of members are the only guys i am currently trusting completely, and some of them are business partners. We help each other out running starbases (i curently own 2 starbases now), and we .
My advice for people that want to start playing Eve is basically, do your homework. You can ask around for peoples reputation, before commiting. Also be wary using corp hangars for personal storage. One more thing, if a scheme looks to good do not go for it.
So long as he compiled with the rules of the game, it's no more fraud that killing somoene in P-v-P is murder. There is no reason virtual realities have to have the same rules as reality. That is one of the reasons we like them.