A Weekend in Westeros> Spoilers ahead!
Thanks to a sprained ankle, I have been laid up for most of the weekend- so I pulled the unread Vol IV of "A Song of Fire and Ice" off the shelf and spent the weekend spent the weekend with George R.R. Martin and his fantasy world.
* spoilers away!*
What did you all think of it? A lot to swallow, to be sure- 800 pp and it's been a long time since Vol III.
I don't think it really worked for me, the way he had to divide up the book between Westeros and the East, making this one focus on The Seven Kingdoms. I felt that some characters got short shrift, and others- none!
My favorite character, Tyrion, is completely absent; The Wall and The North remain in danger, but no details; we read a lot of Cersei (hateful creature!) and Jaime and we go to Dorne and Braavos (for a change of scenery).
On the whole I was disappointed as the storyline advanced very little from the last volume- and I'd been lead to believe that it jumped forward in time by some ten years; clearly that was not the case.
What did anyone else think about this?
"Eat Keel, Hellbug!"


George RR Martin can do no wrong.
That is all.
Edit: I should probably add a little extra. I didn't hear anything about the story jumping 10 years ahead, but that would be kinda cool.
I knew that this book would be about the lesser known characters, so I wasn't surprised. I really enjoyed it and am thrilled that Martin is going to be turning in the next one, A Dance with Dragons, at the end of the year. That means we should have it next summer-ish.
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The whole jumping years ahead in time thing was supposed to happen with A Dance of Dragons, but he found that it didn't work very well when he started writing, so A Feast For Crows is there to fill in the blanks.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
the book itself was much more tightly focused on a few strong characters without jumping around as much as the first three. i sorta lost the feeling of how the characters' plots and intrigue were intertwined, even when halfway across the kingdom. he's supposedly picking up the tales of the other characters in the next book... in the meantime i'm sitting here twitching, waiting oh so impatiently for it.
also, you may want to pick up *fevre dream* by martin. it's a totally different setting and from an earlier time in his writing style/development but still an excellent, albeit short read.
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
I thought the work that was there was fine. However, I am not in favor of splitting the "world". I understand his reasons, but I don't like it. I want the status quo kept, I want to be updated on all viewpoints.
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"Truly, this mishap has set back the swamp sciences several years." - H.P. Lovesauce, lamenting a tragedy.
I'm of that opinion as well.
Like ALG said, this is the 5 year gap between Storm of Swords and the next novel in the series. With that in mind, I can appreciate what he's attempting here, and I'm glad he got the stories of most of the characters that I didn't care about out in this book, so that the next can be all the ones I want to read.
On the upside, Martin does evoke plenty of emotion in his writing. I genuinely hate Cersei; I have come to love Jaime; I'm disgusted by the way Sansa's being pulled in by Littlefinger, etc. Its a fantastic connection that develops between the reader and the characters. But the downside of that is we don't get experience characters that we have already developed relationships with - Bran, Jon Snow, Dany. (Or we get too little - Arry, Sam.)
My biggest concern is that Martin is committing some kind of authorial suicide along the lines of Robert Jordan. But instead of Jordan's godawful repetition and general mindlessness, Martin's making everything just alittle too complex. Its like he's piling on sub-plot after sub-plot, and can't let any of them die and leave well-enough alone.
The prime example is Caitlyn Stark. Why, oh, why couldn't she have remained dead? Surely her resurrection was nothing more than 'shock value'? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems like Martin just continues to open doors, and hasn't chosen to close many of them behind us.
/rant
Just to speculate, what do you think that Brienne shouted just before her supposed execution?
Quintin_Stone wrote:
OMG, Omegawolf- "fevre dream" still haunts me- getting goosebumps typing now!
THE SCARIEST VAMPIRE NOVEL, EVAR!
Haakon- that bothered me lot, too.....
But what REALLY caused me to wonder what the heck was going on was the Prologue and the last chapter.....if you recall, Pate the pig-boy maester apprentice died in the Prologue...but was there speaking to Samwell at the Citadel in Oldtown at the end....
"Eat Keel, Hellbug!"
I read somewhere that A Feast for Crows and A Flight of Dragons was originally one book, but it was so big Martin decided to split it into 2 books, and the next book will concentrate on characters not seen in A Feast of Crows.
Which sucks because we will have to wait twice as long to see what happened to Brienne, Arry, Sam, etc.
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Yeah, my money's on the replacement either being Jaaqen H'gar (I probably just butchered that; the one who befriended Arya and gave her the coin at Harrenhal) or another Faceless Man.
I'm betting Brienne either yelled "Jaime!" or "Sansa!" at the last moment. Or something. I bet she isn't actually dead, since her story didn't actually resolve at all.
See, my guess was 'Arya!' because I thought she knew where Arry was, or at least where she was headed.
Or 'Jaime!' if she was actually hanged. She loves him, and I think he started to feel something for her.
Quintin_Stone wrote:
So what the consensus on the status of Sandor Clegane? Dead, alive, what?
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Alive. I think he was the one digging the grave on that island as Brienne walked past.
Yup. That's the hope. Love the Hound.
Quintin_Stone wrote:
Yeah, definitely alive. One wonders if he's still going to get to face off against whatever Frankengregor Qubyrn was building in the castle basements.
I suspect that will be Littlefinger's undoing in the end though, she's definitely going to be the one to plant the knife in in his back that he has coming.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
Oh, what a fight that will be. I look forward to it.
I think part of the problem is that I had with Sansa for so long was that she had 'lost the wolf'; she had no real idea of who she should be supporting (aka her family). The death of Lady was symbolic of that.
Sansa had 'the wolf' taken from her by the whining of a spoiled brat, and still had the idealism left to forgive him for that. After so much pain, how could her ideals not be crushed? And she's better for it, but I still think she's got the spirit of a Stark in there somewhere. Its just a question of how long it takes for her to remember it.
Quintin_Stone wrote:
Littlefinger has the best quotes in the books. Always something alluding to the fact that everything is playing out how he wants it to. I hope he becomes a more public player of the game.
I enjoyed A Feast For Crows, even though it kind of had a Robert Jordan "Wheel of Time: The Never Ending Series" feeling. I liked the apology at the end explaining that all the regulars would be in the next book, much better then the usual with the author getting all offended that people didn't want to read about auxillary characters.
Elysium wrote:
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Another consensus question:
Is Jon Snow Rhaegar Targaryen's son?
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It seems entirely possible. But its more likely that its Rhaegar's sister's son.
There's a comment in the first book about Jon looking more like Ned than the rest of the Stark kids, is what tips me off. And the fact that Ned hung onto him more tightly than any of the other kids. It seems unlikely that he would so heavily favor a child that wasn't his. Particularly when he and Robert were principals in the movement against the Taragyens.
Quintin_Stone wrote:
I think the general idea was that Jon is the child of Rhaegar and Eddard's dead sister. Am I remembering this wrong?
Well, I don't like to toot my own horn, but I'm a pretty good amateur rectal photographer. Would you like to see my portfolio?
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No, you're absolutely right.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
Man, you guys remember more than I forgot about Jon Snow.....
Well, I am looking forward to visiting Stannis Baratheon, Rickon, Bran, and Stannis' Admiral Lord Davos (?) "The Turnip Knight"....and Tyrion. And Dany.
Somehow I have a feeling that Sansa will be re-united with Tyrion (her husband) and may end up restoring Winterfell by the end.
Despite the devastating indictment of feudal society, I find it heartening that he can find a few folks who can rise above that stultified society and find a better place and be better people.
Speaking of which....I keep getting a sneaky suspicion that "The First Men" and "The Valyrians" are from a colonizing starship...and that this is a fallen civilization. He hints as much in the snippets he's given about Valyria.....
"Eat Keel, Hellbug!"
Onion Knight dude, onion knight.
Well, I don't like to toot my own horn, but I'm a pretty good amateur rectal photographer. Would you like to see my portfolio?
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If that's so, then he died in "Feast"...held hostage at one of the Northern port cities, then strung up to prove the hostage-taker's allegiance to Tommen/Cersei.
Boo! I'll have to double-check it tonight.
"Eat Keel, Hellbug!"
Oh please. The GoTCCG Davos card always has the ability "cannot be killed"
Davos ain't dead. You're right about what it says in Feast though.
Well, I don't like to toot my own horn, but I'm a pretty good amateur rectal photographer. Would you like to see my portfolio?
Song of the Week: ...on Facebook...
You shouldn't tell anything a character take another character in this series at face value. I doubt the Onion Knight is really dead.
Also, I suspect that Ser Loras injuries have been rather exaggerated, and will swoop in to save Margaery, while Cersei snuffs it.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
Here's hoping.
Though I'm worried that Jamie will ultimately go back for her. He's just too honorable a guy.
Quintin_Stone wrote:
I'm thinking he'll go back for her and die in her defense, possibly on purpose - fulfilling the prophecy of a brother causing Cersei's death, at the hands of zombie Gregor in a trial by battle.
Well, I don't like to toot my own horn, but I'm a pretty good amateur rectal photographer. Would you like to see my portfolio?
Song of the Week: ...on Facebook...
Heh. Funny how a man who was introduced by trying to kill an innocent seven year old boy can be described as honourable with a straight face.
I don't think Jamie will be going back to Cersei anytime soon, and besides, he'd be useless in a duel anyway.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
I certainly hope he's not heading back.
I've loved watching Jamie transform from the selfish pig that he was to the man that he is now. He's definitely fit to run House Lannister.
I just wish that he would forgive Tyrion for killing Tywin. He and Tyrion together would be almost unstoppable.
Quintin_Stone wrote:
Jamie is probably the character who has changed the most in my eyes from the start of the series to the current point. I'm not saying he's changed the most, but to me, he went from being one of the most despised characters to one of my favorites. Tyrion was one who annoyed me at first, but quickly became a favorite.
One of Martin's greatest achievements with his writing for me is layering the characters with depth, and making me interested in a wider range of them than I typically find myself in a broader-scale book like this. Usually there's only a few I really am interested in, but here, I keep finding myself fascinated with the majority of them.
That said, aside from Myrcella or the Prince, I wasn't really all that interested in the goings-on in Dorne in Feast for Crows.