Dire Maul you say... hmm I've never ran that... did the mage water quest but thats it... maybe we can do that in 2 levels when Moan hits 40 (assuming DM is level 40 friendly) Also I seem to recall loving SM with Bounce and thats close to this level.

I have to confess that I'm going through a little burnout too. I've groomed a handful of alts of different classes to around level 15, but I'm mostly ambivalent about them, and I was so bummed out by the negativity and sarcasm spewing through Ventrilo on the last guild raid I went on that I really wasn't inclined to join last week.

Maybe it was just a bad week, maybe I was just in a foul mood myself, but the voice comm thing really diminished things for me.

I'm looking forward to the next generation of 60s to arrive and breathe some new life into things. Dire Maul would be pretty cool to check out; I've been in there a couple of times and would like to explore it a bit more.

Take a break guys, it helps. Of course, you may find that you don't want to play WoW anymore during your break, but it happens. Just remember that games are about having some semblence of fun. My break consisted of a few months and I find myself enjoying the game again. Then again, I was never really about the endgame. But, you say you're tired of repeating the same things over and over again... I don't see how that'll change much if you join a hardcore raid guild because you will be doing the same thing over and over again and in your downtime, you'll be farming crap so you can do the same thing over and over again.

It just comes down to who you're doing it with I guess.

I'm actually looking forward to the upcoming patch where we're forced to 5-man instances. It's my hope that we can get some 5-man instance runnings going simply because in the past, it feels like a major road block is forming that 2nd or 3rd group for a raid. And then in the end, the instance doesn't seem as fun because it feels so trivial.

A few days ago, I was reading the post about WoW's biggest flaw and someone commented about how you have one guild for the 1-60 game and all of a sudden, you need another guild for the 60 game. As hubbs says, we aren't the latter and if anyone chooses to join a guld to do more of the latter, there are never any hard feelings. It's just how MMO's go.

Dire Maul is for lvls 55-60 and is lots of fun, IMHO. Good loot too.

I've only been with the guild for a couple weeks now. I was with the Knights of Doomshire on Tichondrius (PvP) a long time ago and I'm definitely having a better experience with this guild. Much more mature crowd.

I'm really actively trying to get up to your level range (Villhelm - almost 33 in two weeks) so that I can get in on some of these instance runs with guild members. The recent defections have given me a little concern. I didn't have the opportunity to raid with any of these people but they all seemed very well liked and by all accounts will be missed. Are the people in the level 55-60 range getting burned out?

Even though I've been playing a lot to get leveled quickly I still consider myself a casual gamer. I don't think a hardcore farming/raiding guild appeals to me. Like Gio, I just want to have fun. If this starts feeling like a treadmill I'll likely jump off for a while...again. The thing is you seem like a good bunch of people and I'd really like to experience some of the higher level content with you all. We seem to have some other people that are also actively leveling to get there. Will the upper level crowd still have interest in sticking around? I'm not talking about 40-man raids here (though I'd eventually like to try that). I just hope there's a decent number of equal level guildmates to run with.

It's sort of a mantra around here - it's not what you play, it's who you play with.

One thing you have to understand... It's not a rejection. Most of the raiding guilds have a 1 guild only rule. You can't have characters in 2 guilds in the same faction on the same server. It creates tension when that happens because there's concern that you aren't focused on the new guild.

Anyways, my $.02 worth...

I think I wanna try getting into a raid guild with Nuka. Purple items are just so damn shiny. I'm ever present in the gwj channel though, and any requests that I "go steady" with whatever the new guild is will be met with nodding, smiling and blatant defiance.

Thats assuming that the other people like Bear won't still do said ZG raid with us... I'm all for allowing it if everyone else is.

This is in no way a plug for Una Familia, so I'll keep it short and sweet.

Bear and the others will have to answer if you need a more short-term perspective, but Baseball, Aia and I have been with Una Familia for 3 months now, and I really like the direction we're heading. We've been running ZG three nights a week for the past 6 weeks, and are just beginning twice weekly MC runs with a couple allied guilds (Knights of Heaven and Nightwraiths). Still, we have many people working on getting their first toons and/or alts to 60, and have plenty of room for their activites.

Just wanted to say that I honestly believe you can find a guild that can be both the friendly pre-60 guild and the high-end raid guild at the same time - maybe our "high-end" won't ever be as high as Fight or Avathar Corda or Crusaders of Drunken Might," but we'll manage to do it with little to no "time commitment," simplified loot systems only where appropriate (Molten Core) and friendly distribution of raid spots and loot everywhere else (Zul'Gurub and lower).

Ok, too long already. I'll stop now.

Just a few comments from Bal:

1. I don't think that the idea of us doing a guild only ZG raid is totally dead. I think we have some really good players and a lot of people between 44-55. We might need a boost at a couple filler positions but I think that in a month or so we'll be able to field the majority of spots for a ZG raid.

2. I know it's been a little gloomy this last week, but I don't think the GWJ Alliance is anywhere near falling apart. We did lose 5 people. Maybe some others are considering leaving. But the influx of new blood and the current staff of GWJers will ensure we are a healthy (and more importantly, happy) guild.

3. I know that right now the grass SEEMS greener in a few other pastures, but spring time is coming baby. Our new crop of heroes are growing fast and we'll soon be able to harvest some uber loots.

4. I have never had as much fun running instances as I do when I go with guildies. Last Saturday was a lark even though we didn't get very far, and running ZF and Mara with Duc, Peec, Nuka and whoever else joined us was awesome. The best part about grouping with fun people is that I almost never can recall what loot dropped when, but I can clearly remember having a great time. That is the reason I pay $15.00 a month and invest a few hours everynight.

I can't speak for how people are faring with the recent changes in our guild, but I look forward to the contributions that the new 60s will be making to the guild and just ask that the current 60s hang in there with us. I promise that we'll do our best to get you guys some good gear and I know we'll at least have some memorable times in the process.

Everyone,
I apologize but I don't know what the game holds for me anymore. I work so much anymore, that I don't evern get much time to think about play anymore, and now with Oblivion out, I make take a bit of time off for that. I am considering joing UF, but we'll see. Once summer starts my time is even more limited, and i have honestly been thinking about canceling my account for a couple months.

If I'm not doing ST, I'll help with Stockades.

Go to that "potential" site I set up, register/apply, and set up an event, or ask DeepSea to set one up, I think he's already expressed interest in setting stuff up like that. Or create an event here. Folks are more likely to try to be there if there's a reminder in the form of an event rather than just a thread request or trying to get an ad hoc group together.

I didn't mean to imply it was an issue of ability - I'm pretty sure that GWJ players are some of the best around. Just a matter of scheduling. It is one thing to have 20 players who can do a raid, it is another thing to coordinate those 20 players on a regular basis to complete a raid.

Personally, I find that kind of 'play' to be more a headache than anything else. I'm happy to run 5 man content with GWJers . If we can swing a raid sometimes, that's great too.

I guess it's finally time to say something on this issue before there's any more speculation on what happened or why.

First, there wasn't a "split" as far as I'm concerned, it was more of a migration. Unfortunately, I was the most recent snowball that started the avalanche. GWJ is a great group of people and likely always will be. It's been a pleasure to quest with all of you and I will truly miss almost everyone and the ever entertaining chat banter. I believe GWJ is a great group of friends who get together on a social basis and play WoW. It's a fantastic way to play the game and there's nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately I felt stagnated and bored an I simply needed more. I'm not sure I can level another alt and PvP just wasn't doing it for me. You all know I left once before for what I thought were greener pastures only to return home. My prior departure wasn't because I thought CoA was better than GWJ, I thought they were bigger. I was wrong. I didn't go to UF because I thought they were better, I just knew they were bigger and they had similar aspirations.

I made the decision to join UF for three reasons.
1. They are much bigger.
2. I knew some people there and I had the opportunity to learn more about them before I joined.
3. I believed that they could help me get to where I wanted to be in the game.

My biggest concern in leaving GWJ was the horror stories I heard about "raiding guilds". The thought of DKP's, shouting matches, greed and big egos horrified me. I'm simply stunned at what I've found and I'm amazed at how low key the whole experience has been. I recieved a warm welcome and the GM (Bonch) and the others have made me feel like I've always been there. l've been there a little over a week and I've probably done a dozen different raids. I was in ZG on Monday (got on to late last night to get in, stupid Blizzard authentication servers) and I'm going to MC tonight and Sunday. I've met a whole bunch of new people and I can tell you that the similarities to GWJ are amazing. There are no big egos, no screaming matches, no fights over loot and no loss of the feeling of family. If you quadrupled the size of GWJ and changed the names you'd never know you were in a different guild. Somehow they've managed to combine the best of the small casual guilds and the large raiding guilds.

There is however one HUGE difference. The biggest difference between GWJ and UF is commitment. If you want to run the big stuff, you're expected to make the commitment to not just being there, but to doing everything in your toons power to make the run successful. I think it's fair to say that it's a lot less casual. It's not a let's show up and see how the raid goes kinda thing. You need to put the time in to get the gear you need, make sure your prereq quests are done and you need to show up on time completely prepared and ready to play. You're also expected to do what you're told and carry your weight. If not, you may not come to the next raid. That's a pretty big step and it's not for everyone.

I guess the biggest difference is that the level of expectation is much higher. That type of playstyle may not be for everyone and again, there's nothing wrong with that. For me it has been a very positive experience and although I miss you, I've made the right decision for me.

I told many people ingame of my intentions and I sincerly appreciate all your support. I owe Leap an apology because due to his recent absence I never got the chance to tell him and I'm too lazy to type all of this in a pm.

I wish all of you nothing but the best and I hope we can continue to chat ingame as we have. I'm still in the SGA channel so you can always find me