Yahoo! bullies Xfire
Saturday, February 12th, 2005 - 1:11pm
Sorry if this was already posted, but a search for +yahoo +xfire resulted in nothing.
Yahoo! sues Xfire for patent infringement
Quote:
As this complaint is just one week old, no "next steps" are certain. Lawyers familiar with patent law have told GameSpot a case like this could cost up to $2 million to defend and take up to two years to fully adjudicate.Impact on Xfire, a company founded in 2002 by Dennis "Thresh" Fong, Mike Cassidy, and Max Woon, is unclear. Likely, the company remains focused on customer acquisition over revenue growth--which makes defense of such a complaint problematic.
Yahoo!, on the other hand, recently reported it had earned $372.5 million on revenues of $1.08 billion for the most recently concluded quarter. Prospects of a drawn-out legal imbroglio, therefore, wouldn't seem to threaten Yahoo!'s well-being. Some industry sources have even speculated the lawsuit suggests a possible first step toward overtures by Yahoo! to buy out the gaming start-up.
That would be my guess too - they want to buy them out. Sucks, because you know they'll mess it all up. I hate the way Yahoo! loads your computer full all that yahoo crap when you just want one component, like the messenger.
Wouldn''t Trillian be a much MUCH better target for this kind of suit?
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Just goes to show you that there is nothing an independant company can''t do without a mega-company clubbing them and taking it away (and then screwing it up).
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No, because Trillian has nothing to do with the patent.
The patent: ""allows users to use a game server in connection with a messenger server to permit ''buddies'' to know when other ''buddies'' are playing games online, and easily join such games.""
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What a wonderfully vague and general patent. Might as well just patent the use of onomatopoeia followed by an exclamation mark while they''re at it.
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Yay for software patents.
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I think it has more to do with the fact that the guy who thought it up worked for Yahoo, then went to Xfire.
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Yeah I think Yahoo contends the xfire guys developed their technology while working for Yahoo and thus it is Yahoo''s property.
They''re still abusing the patent system to get at him. Prove he worked on the XFire code on Yahoo''s dime, then go after him. Unless it''s a general thing that ""we had him working on something similar when he was here and he left then wrote his own code"", which is completely fair play. How would writers feel if after you''ve written one mystery novel for a publisher, you got sued each time you wrote another mystery novel? Or a doctor getting sued by the hospital he did his internship at, you learned to do that here so now we own everything you do with that knowledge? Bullsh*t.
As a programmer this pisses me off to no end, the attitude that everything you do is owed to someone or another, you cannot do anything without owing someone money or asking permission from anyone you might''ve been associated with. It''s completely unthinkable in any other profession, but software has yet to throw off that yoke.
And as far as patent abuse goes, it''s pretty obvious by now that software patents are ripe for this kind of abuse in this country. The Xfire guys should just move to Europe or somewhere the patent system hasn''t been broken yet.
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Yet another reason why I hate Yahoo! - unfortunatly I still use their mail (biggest mailbox next to gmail i''ve found), and i have friends who swear by Yahoo Messenger so I have to have that too. After painful surgury on my comp to remove the other crap they tried to install (even though I unlicked the damn box) I can live with it. Except for the fact that it grows in how much memory it takes up, and it seems to be written with really, really poor code, damn memory leaks and unnessessary function calls. Grrr
Well you can use Yahoo Messenger without using THEIR client. Use GAIM or Trillian or something.
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I hope this goes nowhere, as I really really really like Xfire.
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I agree, this corporate bull5H17 is getting out of hand, xfire is an amazing program, why bother it?
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I think Yahoo smells money quite frankly.
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Yahoo again! I hadn''t realized, although must of seen the announcement, that they also acquired ''All Seeing Eye'' late last year. I use that as a gateway to several games (but basically America''s Army''). Blech.
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As a programmer, I have to disagree. The idea that I can be tasked with something by my employer, work on doing it my own way on my own time, then quit and bring it to market is not fair play, it''s abusing the system. Would he even have done it if he didn''t work at Yahoo? And surely he must have known they would patent it.
To follow up on your examples: If the mystery writer was handed a plot and told: make this a book, then continued to churn out the same book, no, no one would come after him, though I''d hope everyone would catch on and not buy them. The intern analogy doesn''t wash because you''re comparing techniques to products. No one''s going to come after me for taking my C# skills to a new employer. Music, commercial products, client lists; these are things I''d equate it to -- taking things you wouldn''t otherwise have access to if you were working at home on your own ideas.
This is why more programmer''s contracts are including ""anti-competition"" clauses which state that an employee can''t produce a competing product or work for a competitor for a period of time after they leave. I know we''ve been burned by that a couple times and I imagine Yahoo''s as pissed as we were.
Yes, the patent is vague, but in this day and age, that''s enough. It just goes on the pile of ""reasons why patent law doesn''t work for software.""
I''m not defending the patent, I''m defending Yahoo''s right to defend their IP regardless of the patent. The fact they''ve taken this long to exercise that is pure capitalism: wait until it''s successful, then take it over. I don''t like it that I''m on Yahoo''s side, nor do I like their tactics, but there it is...
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And those clauses always have an expiration date. Did he break a non-compete clause? Then he''s still in the clear and they''re abusing the patent system to sue him for something unrelated. And ""churn out the same book"" glosses over my main point, the knowledge of how to build a good IM product and the template of how to build one are so similar that any meaningful distinction is lost. It''s the same thing. Now if there are clear areas of code he copied from Yahoo''s implementation it''s different, but that''s not what they''re suing over. They''re suing him for doing something similar to something he worked on years before at Yahoo. That''s teaching someone skills and then suing them for using it in a manner you don''t approve of after they leave your company. That''s not fair play in any other industry, and tech companies need to wake up to it.
You''re also assuming he worked on XFire while at Yahoo. If he did, then yeah that''s definitely pushing the boundaries of ethics. However the article says he left Yahoo years before starting at XFire. Any non-compete clauses would''ve expired and code would be obselete by this point. I don''t see how this case relates to your example here.
"Poor Eli Nooo... *child starts crying*"
"Come on now, there's no need to make that kind of noise. It sounds awful and you'll upset other people." - Ionae from Spirit Engine 2
He knew Yahoo was planning something similar to XFire. Whether he worked on XFire at the time or not is irrelevant. If he knew about the patent, then he is very sly, has dug his own grave, or has initiated his own martyrdom in the name of stupid patent laws. Of course, XFire''s disputing that they''ve violated the patent, so we''ll have to wait and see.
And you''re right, if there was one in place, a no-compete clause would likely have expired. I just brought it up as a possible motive for Yahoo doing this -- the fact that they''re pissed that he''s doing well with it but they couldn''t catch him with anything else.
Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit. - Oscar Wilde
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. (Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.) - Roedy Green
Exactly.. if X-fire was not successful Yahoo would not give a rat''s arse who infringes on their patent. Since they are they can go after them since now they are a threat to Yahoo.
BTW: The wording of that patent is soo vague. Why not go after Gamespy next?
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I hope Xfire burns Yahoo to the ground on this. What a bunch of peens (Yahoo).
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Theres a banner that can be put up on a stie to support Xfire, found here.
I was wondering if we could put one up here since some of us do use Xfire.
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I''m confused about this whole patent thing. What exactly does yahoo have a patent on if they don''t even have a competing program? You can''t just patent an idea to prevent competition can you? Do they have some sort of program in development and they are complaining that xfire copied their code to develop their program or something?
Yahoo! does have a competing product, a specialized (built-in) addin for its messenger called GameProwler.
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As noted above I use ASE. I got a lifetime membership within the first few month's of it's start up ('cause I disliked klunky GameSpy's gateway). And now with this Yahoo thing and such I'd like to use X-Fire more. I had for awhile, but it seem to conflict with some things (real or imagined:) It is very cool (X-Fire) and would like to get back into it full bore. One thing tho' I want to clarify that is possible. Like in ASE, I can click to a game (say America's Army), pick a map and then see what server's are up and pick whichever has the best ping, options (like 'Live Fire' as opposed to a 'Training (MILES)' server. See who is on it and etc. Can I do the same with X-Fire? (besides there's a rumor the Yahoo plan's to shut down the Lifetime member's 'cause it bring's them zip in cash flow).
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