I''ve never really paid attention, but are games rated/sold like movies? (I would go dig through ps2 boxes, but I''m trying to get the boy to take a nap and I''d make too much noise.) What I mean is, is there an ""R"" rating, like movies, where someone under age X (16-17?) isn''t supposed to be able to gain admittance without an adult? I have some vague memory of game ratings systems being discussed, but I seem to remember that it was more of a marketing gimmick thing than a legislative thing.
I guess my point is, if we feel justified in using a ratings system for film and television and other media, then a ratings system that follows the same standards for games seems inevitable.
*Legion* wrote:
Poor be the man who has not learned from watching Looney Tunes that if you make the wick too long, the target will extinguish it before it blows. Meep meep.
I''ve never really paid attention, but are games rated/sold like movies? (I would go dig through ps2 boxes, but I''m trying to get the boy to take a nap and I''d make too much noise.) What I mean is, is there an ""R"" rating, like movies, where someone under age X (16-17?) isn''t supposed to be able to gain admittance without an adult? I have some vague memory of game ratings systems being discussed, but I seem to remember that it was more of a marketing gimmick thing than a legislative thing.
I guess my point is, if we feel justified in using a ratings system for film and television and other media, then a ratings system that follows the same standards for games seems inevitable.
Yes but, like the movie theatres, it isn''t actually law.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
Yes but, like the movie theatres, it isn''t actually law.
That''s true, but it wouldn''t be the end of the world if it was.
Personally, I would take the law and its subsequent enforcement if, in exchange, all campaigning and torch-waving regarding video games and kids ceases in turn. At least, by those in power. Soccer moms without any lives of their own will always whine about this or that.
I say if little Johnny comes home with GTA: Blood Will Run From The Maws of the Dead: Los Angelas w/o mommy''s approval they take the game away, castrate the father and rip out mommy''s ovaries and then deny them medical insurance on hormone drugs.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
Dr.G, it would be more like, GTA: WE''RE NOT f*ckING KIDDING. COMMIT FELONIES, MURDER HOOKERS, AND USE DRUGS. STOP PLAYING THIS GAME AND RUN OVER SOMEONE RIGHT NOW IN REAL LIFE.
And remember, the Japanese aren't commercially whaling. They're conducting "research". Like "researching how delicious this whale is". - Paleocon
Location: Coming to you from an undisclosed location.
Thursday, February 3rd, 2005 - 4:04pm
"Dr.Ghastly wrote:
"DuckiDeva wrote:
I''ve never really paid attention, but are games rated/sold like movies? (I would go dig through ps2 boxes, but I''m trying to get the boy to take a nap and I''d make too much noise.) What I mean is, is there an ""R"" rating, like movies, where someone under age X (16-17?) isn''t supposed to be able to gain admittance without an adult? I have some vague memory of game ratings systems being discussed, but I seem to remember that it was more of a marketing gimmick thing than a legislative thing.
I guess my point is, if we feel justified in using a ratings system for film and television and other media, then a ratings system that follows the same standards for games seems inevitable.
Yes but, like the movie theatres, it isn''t actually law.
I believe the difference here is that movie theaters actually enforce these ratings unlike the gaming industry.
While I am not a big fan of censorship part of me also knows there is age appropriate content.
Of cpurse parents need to be supervising children but at the same time as a parent it is nice to know that if my kids want to go see a movie and that it say rated G it should be safe without me having to prescreen it and that if I am not arround the theater in general will not let them get into an R movie.
With games would be nice if the same was true.
The gamer, parent, and free speech parts of me are all in conflict!
You know, my 8 (as of yesterday, but he''s been video game shopping since he was 6) used to only give me games based on the ESRB when he wanted them, with the very occasional Teen rated one offered up with the phrase of ""Can you look at this one? Can I get it if there''s no bad words or blood or stuff?"". At 6 he had more sense in buying than most parents. Heck, I remember the first T rated game he got, Ratchet and Clank 2, that I bought as a surprise, he was worried to open as that T was imposing to him (ya, I thought it was cute). -For the record, Ratchet and Clank 2 is about as nasty as a bad Wile E Coyote cartoon...my son''s mental state is not going to be damaged from him playing cartoon destruction of robots.
Any video game either of my kids have bought or recieved as a gift I''ve approved. I''ve never had to reject one, but had say GTA come up in the discussion, it would have been rejected. I don''t know what the rating is on it, and don''t care. I don''t need the rating to know I don''t want that for them. While I would hope that vid_store_rental_dude_03 would not rent it to my kids it, it''s **MY** job to be sure they don''t. Lazy parents spent more time getting laws passed to give them more excuses to be lazy and not care for their kids. If they spent half the energy just caring for their kids, they wouldn''t need the stupid laws. Too many people expect Spongebob and Raven to raise their kids.
Gotham City is in trouble, so I put on a rubber suit and go save innocents from psychotic men in stage makeup. It's more straightforward than you might think. - Sanjuro
I always make sure that parents buying their kids stuff know what is in the games... I just think they should know if there is questionable material in there... and a lot of parents have no idea...
I believe the difference here is that movie theaters actually enforce these ratings unlike the gaming industry.
In theaters, yes, mainly because of the nature of what theaters are. In DVD sales, the movie industry is no better than games. Sometimes worse even, as retailers that might enforce the big fat ""M"" on the front of a game, in the visible front corner where it belongs, might not be as likely to flip a DVD over and scan for the miniscule ""R"" that may or may not be hiding in some random area of the back cover.
Location: Coming to you from an undisclosed location.
Thursday, February 3rd, 2005 - 4:26pm
"*Legion* wrote:
"maladen wrote:
I believe the difference here is that movie theaters actually enforce these ratings unlike the gaming industry.
In theaters, yes, mainly because of the nature of what theaters are. In DVD sales, the movie industry is no better than games. Sometimes worse even, as retailers that might enforce the big fat ""M"" on the front of a game, in the visible front corner where it belongs, might not be as likely to flip a DVD over and scan for the miniscule ""R"" that may or may not be hiding in some random area of the back cover.
Oh good point guess that was not a fiar comparisson on my part. I never buy DvDs much and of course being an adult do not pay much attention to rating any way.
I really do not see how this law could stand if it is even passed.
Although I wonder in the eyes of the law what is the difference in saying you need to be 21/18 to purchase and play GTA over drinking, smoking, porn or other age restricted activities.
The video game industry, like the movie industry, created it''s own ratings system in an attempt to avoid the government doing it for them. As far as I know, there has never been a law that stood up in court to force retailers to enforce those ratings. Does anyone know of a law that has?
"Anakin, as embodied by [Hayden] Christensen, is the kind of needlessly moody kid you might see getting punched out in a Dairy Queen parking lot."
"”Paul Tatara on SW:Episode II
The movie industry doesn''t have laws to enforce it''s ratings system either. It educates the theaters and parents about their ratings system and gets everyone to enforce it for them. The video game publishers and console makers should do the same. Get parents to understand that there is an ESRB and it does relate to your kids games, and then get the stores to understand the system and enforce it. It beats government regulation.
I do think game stores, and game companies should be more active in educating people about game ratings, but even so, some people just don''t want to be bothered. The parents that don''t know their kids are playing GTA are the same ones that aren''t going to bother looking at game ratings.
Stores however, should be keeping an eye on it. Right now, a store is hesitant to strictly enforce the ratings because they don''t want to lose a sale. They know if they refuse to sell someone a game, the store down the street will be happy to sell it and take the money.
Same thing with the game companies. Stopping people from buying their game results in lower profits. Pyro''s right though, it''s better to police yourself then have the government do it for you. I''d like to see the ESRB empowered to levy fines on stores that sell games to children younger then the rating recommends, but I don''t see that happening anytime soon. Chains like Best Buy and Wal-Mart can either afford to pay the fines and still make money, or simply threaten to stop selling games with certain ratings, hurting the industry even more.
"Anakin, as embodied by [Hayden] Christensen, is the kind of needlessly moody kid you might see getting punched out in a Dairy Queen parking lot."
"”Paul Tatara on SW:Episode II
I guess my point is, if we feel justified in using a ratings system for film and television and other media, then a ratings system that follows the same standards for games seems inevitable.
I agree. If a 15 year old can''t get into an R-rated movie with parental consent, why should a 15 year old be able to buy an M rated game? That''s all they''re trying to prevent--minors buying M rated games without parental consent. There''s no censorship involved, the games will still be there, and if little Johnny''s parents feel he is mature enough at 12 to play that M rated game, that''s their business.
What this will do, if enforced, is reduce sales on certain types of games, hence all the resistance. Game Company X and Game Store Y don''t want to lose revenue. I think teenagers have a morbid fascination with M rated games due to the fact that they''re tacitly forbidden, but easily obtainable. That''s another discussion topic entirely though.
If we''re not willing to enforce the ratings on games the ratings are meaningless. If we''re not willing to enforce ratings on all appropriate media, there''s really no point in having them at all. I don''t see the point in stopping a kid from going to an R-rated movie if he can walk into any store and buy GTA4: Mad Killer Road Rampage Simulator without any hassles at all.
Um, when have you ever had anyone from the ""movie industry"" educate you, as an adult I assume, about Ratings? I strongly doubt you ever have, and I assure you neither have I. But I understand them just fine.
The ratings are as blatantly obvious as possible. M for Mature, in fact, is even more obvious then R. On the logo is ""17+"". Rated R DVDs don''t even have that. At the end of every single video game commercial you''ll ever see, the rating is displayed. It''s on every single ad in magazines, and on every single box sold. The problem is NOT the rating system. It''s the parents, plain and simple. Parents are not taking the time to educate themselves, and there''s nothing anyone can do about that.
And in the end, the reason that law won''t pass is because the government can''t tell parents what their kids can or can''t watch. There ARE parents out there who are straight up okay with their 8 year old son playing GTA, and as a parent, that''s their right.
It''s not up to the game companies to insure that no minor ever gets possesion of an M rated game. Ideally, that should be up to the parents. I can''t imagine it''s THAT difficult to know what your child is doing on a computer or a Playstation. You can''t monitor what they do at a friends house, but then that kids parents should be doing that. We have to stop abdicating our responsibilities to the government and asking them to protect us from ourselves.
Stores should be checking to see if kids are old enough to play a particular game, but I don''t think it should be their ultimate responsibility to make sure little Billy isn''t getting his hands on something he shouldn''t be playing.
"Anakin, as embodied by [Hayden] Christensen, is the kind of needlessly moody kid you might see getting punched out in a Dairy Queen parking lot."
"”Paul Tatara on SW:Episode II
""]The movie industry doesn''t have laws to enforce it''s ratings system either. It educates the theaters and parents about their ratings system and gets everyone to enforce it for them. The video game publishers and console makers should do the same. Get parents to understand that there is an ESRB and it does relate to your kids games, and then get the stores to understand the system and enforce it. It beats government regulation.
While I certainly agree it would be better for the industry to police itself, to date it has failed to do so. Movie theaters will stop a 13 year old from getting into an R-rated movie. Game stores are not stopping a 13 year old from buying an M-rated game.
If it was a debate about freedom of speech/expression and the necessity of game developers to be creative that would be one thing, but it''s really just stores and publishers being unwilling to lose sales. If the game industry won''t hold itself responsible, sooner or later somebody is going to do it for them.
If we''re not willing to enforce the ratings on games the ratings are meaningless. If we''re not willing to enforce ratings on all appropriate media, there''s really no point in having them at all. I don''t see the point in stopping a kid from going to an R-rated movie if he can walk into any store and buy GTA4: Mad Killer Road Rampage Simulator without any hassles at all.
I don''t know about you, but I bought Rated R movies all the time in my mispent youth. About the only movie I''ve ever had someone check my ID on, in fact, is a Porno. (Shhh, don''t tell anyone.)
The fact is, games are the SAME as movies, despite the common misconception that they are treated differently. The only place Movie ratings are enforced are at Movie theaters, though not by law. Video games, however, are not distributed that way. The closest equivalent would be an internet cafe, most of which that I''ve been to have age requirements.
""If we''re not willing to enforce the ratings on games the ratings are meaningless.""
Actually, the idea that the Ratings are for the retailers to enforce is a pretty inaccurate assumption. That was never the intention, for Movies or for Video Games. Ratings are to inform parents so that they can make a decision for their kids. Simple as that. The flipside of the coin that you''re forgetting are the parents that don''t care if their kids watch rated R movies, or play M games. That''s their right as parents.
Ratings are to warn parents who wish to be warned, but no where do they promise to keep mature media out of your kids hands if you''re to lazy to do it yourself. Nor should they have to, in my opinion.
Location: Coming to you from an undisclosed location.
Thursday, February 3rd, 2005 - 8:02pm
I do not see anything wrong with saying you have to be an adult to buy certain things.
We do it all the time with all kinds of other products. If I was a beer company I would print something really important on the label and then claim 1st Admendment Rights when told a minor can not buy my product.
I mean is a soft porn movie that much worse for a 16 year old to watch say over a game that has you beat hoes?
As a parent I am not saying I want the government to raise my children. In fact I do my best to make sure that my kids in fact do only get age appropriate stuff but at same time I am not offended by the idea that material a reasonable person would find objectional for a minor be made more difficult for them to obtain.
And in the end, the reason that law won''t pass is because the government can''t tell parents what their kids can or can''t watch.
There''s plenty of people who will fight either side for kids to have or not have the right to watch what they want though =) It''s a vicious circle though. The ratings are there to protect kids. Lazy parents will ignore the ratings, but then complain when Sweet Little Joey is beating da'' hoes with his homies digitally. So they put more ratings, which the same lazy parents ignore. And then complain more.
Gotham City is in trouble, so I put on a rubber suit and go save innocents from psychotic men in stage makeup. It's more straightforward than you might think. - Sanjuro
I do not see anything wrong with saying you have to be an adult to buy certain things.
We do it all the time with all kinds of other products. If I was a beer company I would print something really important on the label and then claim 1st Admendment Rights when told a minor can not buy my product.
I mean is a soft porn movie that much worse for a 16 year old to watch say over a game that has you beat hoes?
As a parent I am not saying I want the government to raise my children. In fact I do my best to make sure that my kids in fact do only get age appropriate stuff but at same time I am not offended by the idea that material a reasonable person would find objectional for a minor be made more difficult for them to obtain.
Alcohol, Pornogrophy, etc are all things that are already illegal for minors to have, whether they buy it or not. They''ve all been proven to be dangerous for minors, as well. So making it illegal to sell these things to a minor is just a matter of course. Mature Video games are neither illegal in the hands of a minor, nor have they been proven to harm minors in any way shape or form.
Think of mature video games as a rated R movie. It is not illegal for Target to sell a Rated R movie to a teen, nor should it be. If Target decides that they want to card people who buy Rated R movies(which they don''t), so be it. But it''s not the government''s place to make them.
Location: Coming to you from an undisclosed location.
Friday, February 4th, 2005 - 3:42pm
"--Kin-- wrote:
"maladen wrote:
I do not see anything wrong with saying you have to be an adult to buy certain things.
We do it all the time with all kinds of other products. If I was a beer company I would print something really important on the label and then claim 1st Admendment Rights when told a minor can not buy my product.
I mean is a soft porn movie that much worse for a 16 year old to watch say over a game that has you beat hoes?
As a parent I am not saying I want the government to raise my children. In fact I do my best to make sure that my kids in fact do only get age appropriate stuff but at same time I am not offended by the idea that material a reasonable person would find objectional for a minor be made more difficult for them to obtain.
Alcohol, Pornogrophy, etc are all things that are already illegal for minors to have, whether they buy it or not. They''ve all been proven to be dangerous for minors, as well. So making it illegal to sell these things to a minor is just a matter of course. Mature Video games are neither illegal in the hands of a minor, nor have they been proven to harm minors in any way shape or form.
Think of mature video games as a rated R movie. It is not illegal for Target to sell a Rated R movie to a teen, nor should it be. If Target decides that they want to card people who buy Rated R movies(which they don''t), so be it. But it''s not the government''s place to make them.
What effidence is there that says Playboy is harmful to a teen but a game where you kill your co-workers and thin wizz on thier dead bodies is not? So you telling me that watching a movie of people doing it is harmful but watching say a beheading is not? I think as a society we just like to glorify violence and get offended at sex.
I submit that as a society we make certain decisions already such as violence, sex and what not are generally not good for young children so we as parents try to keep them out of the hands of children.
If we find it ok to regulate a certain type of media, graphic sex a.ka. porn, then regulating graphic violence is no different.
Do not want to get to P&C but thought this interesting and while I know it will not stand in court I find it mildly entertaining that people are in general more offended by sex than violence.
The gamer, parent, and free speech parts of me are all in conflict!
I''m totally with you there. Really.
*Legion* wrote:
Poor be the man who has not learned from watching Looney Tunes that if you make the wick too long, the target will extinguish it before it blows. Meep meep.
Try, and try again, don''t they?
I''ve never really paid attention, but are games rated/sold like movies? (I would go dig through ps2 boxes, but I''m trying to get the boy to take a nap and I''d make too much noise.) What I mean is, is there an ""R"" rating, like movies, where someone under age X (16-17?) isn''t supposed to be able to gain admittance without an adult? I have some vague memory of game ratings systems being discussed, but I seem to remember that it was more of a marketing gimmick thing than a legislative thing.
I guess my point is, if we feel justified in using a ratings system for film and television and other media, then a ratings system that follows the same standards for games seems inevitable.
*Legion* wrote:
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
There are ESRB ratings.
You can see them here.
Do you ever walk alone like a drifter in the dark?
That''s true, but it wouldn''t be the end of the world if it was.
Personally, I would take the law and its subsequent enforcement if, in exchange, all campaigning and torch-waving regarding video games and kids ceases in turn. At least, by those in power. Soccer moms without any lives of their own will always whine about this or that.
Gaming / PC Tech Blog: Blast Processing - www.blastprocessing.net
Xbox Live: Legion SB | PSN: Legion_SB
"Damn, your comedic timing is awesome." -- Spaz, *Legion* Fan #1437
Agreed 100% but that will never happen.
I say if little Johnny comes home with GTA: Blood Will Run From The Maws of the Dead: Los Angelas w/o mommy''s approval they take the game away, castrate the father and rip out mommy''s ovaries and then deny them medical insurance on hormone drugs.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
Dr.G, it would be more like, GTA: WE''RE NOT f*ckING KIDDING. COMMIT FELONIES, MURDER HOOKERS, AND USE DRUGS. STOP PLAYING THIS GAME AND RUN OVER SOMEONE RIGHT NOW IN REAL LIFE.
And remember, the Japanese aren't commercially whaling. They're conducting "research". Like "researching how delicious this whale is". - Paleocon
I believe the difference here is that movie theaters actually enforce these ratings unlike the gaming industry.
While I am not a big fan of censorship part of me also knows there is age appropriate content.
Of cpurse parents need to be supervising children but at the same time as a parent it is nice to know that if my kids want to go see a movie and that it say rated G it should be safe without me having to prescreen it and that if I am not arround the theater in general will not let them get into an R movie.
With games would be nice if the same was true.
The gamer, parent, and free speech parts of me are all in conflict!
Yeah, because in Southeast DC, the kids are exposed to violence through videogames. Gimme a break.
Xbox Live: hubbinsd
You know, my 8 (as of yesterday, but he''s been video game shopping since he was 6) used to only give me games based on the ESRB when he wanted them, with the very occasional Teen rated one offered up with the phrase of ""Can you look at this one? Can I get it if there''s no bad words or blood or stuff?"". At 6 he had more sense in buying than most parents. Heck, I remember the first T rated game he got, Ratchet and Clank 2, that I bought as a surprise, he was worried to open as that T was imposing to him (ya, I thought it was cute). -For the record, Ratchet and Clank 2 is about as nasty as a bad Wile E Coyote cartoon...my son''s mental state is not going to be damaged from him playing cartoon destruction of robots.
Any video game either of my kids have bought or recieved as a gift I''ve approved. I''ve never had to reject one, but had say GTA come up in the discussion, it would have been rejected. I don''t know what the rating is on it, and don''t care. I don''t need the rating to know I don''t want that for them. While I would hope that vid_store_rental_dude_03 would not rent it to my kids it, it''s **MY** job to be sure they don''t. Lazy parents spent more time getting laws passed to give them more excuses to be lazy and not care for their kids. If they spent half the energy just caring for their kids, they wouldn''t need the stupid laws. Too many people expect Spongebob and Raven to raise their kids.
Gotham City is in trouble, so I put on a rubber suit and go save innocents from psychotic men in stage makeup. It's more straightforward than you might think. - Sanjuro
Nerf parents.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
I always make sure that parents buying their kids stuff know what is in the games... I just think they should know if there is questionable material in there... and a lot of parents have no idea...
xbox live: Lester King 17
In theaters, yes, mainly because of the nature of what theaters are. In DVD sales, the movie industry is no better than games. Sometimes worse even, as retailers that might enforce the big fat ""M"" on the front of a game, in the visible front corner where it belongs, might not be as likely to flip a DVD over and scan for the miniscule ""R"" that may or may not be hiding in some random area of the back cover.
Gaming / PC Tech Blog: Blast Processing - www.blastprocessing.net
Xbox Live: Legion SB | PSN: Legion_SB
"Damn, your comedic timing is awesome." -- Spaz, *Legion* Fan #1437
Oh good point guess that was not a fiar comparisson on my part. I never buy DvDs much and of course being an adult do not pay much attention to rating any way.
I really do not see how this law could stand if it is even passed.
Although I wonder in the eyes of the law what is the difference in saying you need to be 21/18 to purchase and play GTA over drinking, smoking, porn or other age restricted activities.
The video game industry, like the movie industry, created it''s own ratings system in an attempt to avoid the government doing it for them. As far as I know, there has never been a law that stood up in court to force retailers to enforce those ratings. Does anyone know of a law that has?
"Anakin, as embodied by [Hayden] Christensen, is the kind of needlessly moody kid you might see getting punched out in a Dairy Queen parking lot."
"”Paul Tatara on SW:Episode II
The movie industry doesn''t have laws to enforce it''s ratings system either. It educates the theaters and parents about their ratings system and gets everyone to enforce it for them. The video game publishers and console makers should do the same. Get parents to understand that there is an ESRB and it does relate to your kids games, and then get the stores to understand the system and enforce it. It beats government regulation.
"You just checked in to Hotel Califoni-getyourasskicked!" Steely Dan said to The Eagles
Oh here is a post article going in a bit more detail.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58996-2005Feb2.html
I do think game stores, and game companies should be more active in educating people about game ratings, but even so, some people just don''t want to be bothered. The parents that don''t know their kids are playing GTA are the same ones that aren''t going to bother looking at game ratings.
Stores however, should be keeping an eye on it. Right now, a store is hesitant to strictly enforce the ratings because they don''t want to lose a sale. They know if they refuse to sell someone a game, the store down the street will be happy to sell it and take the money.
Same thing with the game companies. Stopping people from buying their game results in lower profits. Pyro''s right though, it''s better to police yourself then have the government do it for you. I''d like to see the ESRB empowered to levy fines on stores that sell games to children younger then the rating recommends, but I don''t see that happening anytime soon. Chains like Best Buy and Wal-Mart can either afford to pay the fines and still make money, or simply threaten to stop selling games with certain ratings, hurting the industry even more.
"Anakin, as embodied by [Hayden] Christensen, is the kind of needlessly moody kid you might see getting punched out in a Dairy Queen parking lot."
"”Paul Tatara on SW:Episode II
I agree. If a 15 year old can''t get into an R-rated movie with parental consent, why should a 15 year old be able to buy an M rated game? That''s all they''re trying to prevent--minors buying M rated games without parental consent. There''s no censorship involved, the games will still be there, and if little Johnny''s parents feel he is mature enough at 12 to play that M rated game, that''s their business.
What this will do, if enforced, is reduce sales on certain types of games, hence all the resistance. Game Company X and Game Store Y don''t want to lose revenue. I think teenagers have a morbid fascination with M rated games due to the fact that they''re tacitly forbidden, but easily obtainable. That''s another discussion topic entirely though.
If we''re not willing to enforce the ratings on games the ratings are meaningless. If we''re not willing to enforce ratings on all appropriate media, there''s really no point in having them at all. I don''t see the point in stopping a kid from going to an R-rated movie if he can walk into any store and buy GTA4: Mad Killer Road Rampage Simulator without any hassles at all.
Graktar, Orc Hunter
Um, when have you ever had anyone from the ""movie industry"" educate you, as an adult I assume, about Ratings? I strongly doubt you ever have, and I assure you neither have I. But I understand them just fine.
The ratings are as blatantly obvious as possible. M for Mature, in fact, is even more obvious then R. On the logo is ""17+"". Rated R DVDs don''t even have that. At the end of every single video game commercial you''ll ever see, the rating is displayed. It''s on every single ad in magazines, and on every single box sold. The problem is NOT the rating system. It''s the parents, plain and simple. Parents are not taking the time to educate themselves, and there''s nothing anyone can do about that.
And in the end, the reason that law won''t pass is because the government can''t tell parents what their kids can or can''t watch. There ARE parents out there who are straight up okay with their 8 year old son playing GTA, and as a parent, that''s their right.
It''s not up to the game companies to insure that no minor ever gets possesion of an M rated game. Ideally, that should be up to the parents. I can''t imagine it''s THAT difficult to know what your child is doing on a computer or a Playstation. You can''t monitor what they do at a friends house, but then that kids parents should be doing that. We have to stop abdicating our responsibilities to the government and asking them to protect us from ourselves.
Stores should be checking to see if kids are old enough to play a particular game, but I don''t think it should be their ultimate responsibility to make sure little Billy isn''t getting his hands on something he shouldn''t be playing.
"Anakin, as embodied by [Hayden] Christensen, is the kind of needlessly moody kid you might see getting punched out in a Dairy Queen parking lot."
"”Paul Tatara on SW:Episode II
While I certainly agree it would be better for the industry to police itself, to date it has failed to do so. Movie theaters will stop a 13 year old from getting into an R-rated movie. Game stores are not stopping a 13 year old from buying an M-rated game.
If it was a debate about freedom of speech/expression and the necessity of game developers to be creative that would be one thing, but it''s really just stores and publishers being unwilling to lose sales. If the game industry won''t hold itself responsible, sooner or later somebody is going to do it for them.
Graktar, Orc Hunter
I don''t know about you, but I bought Rated R movies all the time in my mispent youth. About the only movie I''ve ever had someone check my ID on, in fact, is a Porno. (Shhh, don''t tell anyone.)
The fact is, games are the SAME as movies, despite the common misconception that they are treated differently. The only place Movie ratings are enforced are at Movie theaters, though not by law. Video games, however, are not distributed that way. The closest equivalent would be an internet cafe, most of which that I''ve been to have age requirements.
""If we''re not willing to enforce the ratings on games the ratings are meaningless.""
Actually, the idea that the Ratings are for the retailers to enforce is a pretty inaccurate assumption. That was never the intention, for Movies or for Video Games. Ratings are to inform parents so that they can make a decision for their kids. Simple as that. The flipside of the coin that you''re forgetting are the parents that don''t care if their kids watch rated R movies, or play M games. That''s their right as parents.
Ratings are to warn parents who wish to be warned, but no where do they promise to keep mature media out of your kids hands if you''re to lazy to do it yourself. Nor should they have to, in my opinion.
I do not see anything wrong with saying you have to be an adult to buy certain things.
We do it all the time with all kinds of other products. If I was a beer company I would print something really important on the label and then claim 1st Admendment Rights when told a minor can not buy my product.
I mean is a soft porn movie that much worse for a 16 year old to watch say over a game that has you beat hoes?
As a parent I am not saying I want the government to raise my children. In fact I do my best to make sure that my kids in fact do only get age appropriate stuff but at same time I am not offended by the idea that material a reasonable person would find objectional for a minor be made more difficult for them to obtain.
There''s plenty of people who will fight either side for kids to have or not have the right to watch what they want though =) It''s a vicious circle though. The ratings are there to protect kids. Lazy parents will ignore the ratings, but then complain when Sweet Little Joey is beating da'' hoes with his homies digitally. So they put more ratings, which the same lazy parents ignore. And then complain more.
Gotham City is in trouble, so I put on a rubber suit and go save innocents from psychotic men in stage makeup. It's more straightforward than you might think. - Sanjuro
Alcohol, Pornogrophy, etc are all things that are already illegal for minors to have, whether they buy it or not. They''ve all been proven to be dangerous for minors, as well. So making it illegal to sell these things to a minor is just a matter of course. Mature Video games are neither illegal in the hands of a minor, nor have they been proven to harm minors in any way shape or form.
Think of mature video games as a rated R movie. It is not illegal for Target to sell a Rated R movie to a teen, nor should it be. If Target decides that they want to card people who buy Rated R movies(which they don''t), so be it. But it''s not the government''s place to make them.
What effidence is there that says Playboy is harmful to a teen but a game where you kill your co-workers and thin wizz on thier dead bodies is not? So you telling me that watching a movie of people doing it is harmful but watching say a beheading is not? I think as a society we just like to glorify violence and get offended at sex.
I submit that as a society we make certain decisions already such as violence, sex and what not are generally not good for young children so we as parents try to keep them out of the hands of children.
If we find it ok to regulate a certain type of media, graphic sex a.ka. porn, then regulating graphic violence is no different.
Do not want to get to P&C but thought this interesting and while I know it will not stand in court I find it mildly entertaining that people are in general more offended by sex than violence.
I''m totally with you there. Really.
*Legion* wrote: