Conference Call

GWJ Conference Call Episode 433

Heroes Of The Storm, Grey Goo, Shadow of Mordor DLC, Multiplayer Social Dynamics, Your Emails and more!

This week Shawn, Elysium, Cory and Allen talk about their ongoing relationship with multiplayer gaming.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.

Chairman_Mao's Timestamps

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Makin’ Money - Echoside - http://echosidetracks.bandcamp.com/ - 31:02

Young Man’s Game - Echoside - http://echosidetracks.bandcamp.com/ - 47:31

Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks

Comments

Hatoful Boyfriend spoiler section will go up tomorrow!

Could you link to the book on Gettysburg too?

I would totally be playing Grey Goo right now but the price is a bit rich for my blood at the moment (especially with the New 3DS coming very soon).

Soon as it hits a decent sale price though...

I'm with Demi - HotS is a MOBA for babies, and I'm absolutely a baby when it comes to MOBAs. Unlike LoL and DOTA2, I've actually been able to contribute in games right away - playing with randoms. I haven't been subjected to horrible toxic language, and I haven't felt like I've needed a semester-long college course to even begin trying.

The book Sean mentions is called The Killer Angels.

And if you don't have time for the book, watch the movie/mini-series.

Demiurge wrote:

The book Sean mentions is called The Killer Angels.

Thanks! I couldn't remember the title.

Sean Sands, once again cementing his position as one of my favorite people on the internet by recommending The Killer Angels.

Phenomenal book, meticulously researched, and a great read to boot.

I used to run screaming away from anything the wreaked of multi-player. I still have no plans to cross the MOBA line, even MOBA's for babies. Babies are terrifying psychotics who only care about their own needs and desires.

But I have been enjoying playing Lords of Waterdeep with the community (which reminds me, the 2015 tourney needs to start soon!) I've some fun with Chaos Reborn, and my favorite multi-player game remains D&D :).

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I still have no plans to cross the MOBA line, even MOBA's for babies. Babies are terrifying psychotics who only care about their own needs and desires.

omg you guys i'm pretty sure i'm a baby. This changes everything.

Demiurge wrote:
TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I still have no plans to cross the MOBA line, even MOBA's for babies. Babies are terrifying psychotics who only care about their own needs and desires.

omg you guys i'm pretty sure i'm a baby. This changes everything.

Also explains the pooping yourself and how you cover everyone around you with food when you eat.

This changes everything.

Does it?

Jonman wrote:
Demiurge wrote:
TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I still have no plans to cross the MOBA line, even MOBA's for babies. Babies are terrifying psychotics who only care about their own needs and desires.

omg you guys i'm pretty sure i'm a baby. This changes everything.

Also explains the pooping yourself and how you cover everyone around you with food when you eat.

That's not normal adult behavior?

I... Oh.

Elysium wrote:
This changes everything.

Does it?

Huh, maybe not.

In regards to multiplayer, I was about to pipe up that Mario Kart 8 was actually a rarity in which I played with pubs, but they don't offer regular communication through there. In fact, you're filtered to nothing but positives or non-insulting negatives like "I'll get you next time!" or "Not fair!", the latter of which does a nice job summarizing a good chunk of normal online chat into a neat, tidy, family friendly package. The only other option is Destiny, which also limited communication with pubbies.

So essentially, if I really have to think about the last time I played with pubs, it was with Ahrezmendi during Extra Life 2013 when we were just playing random games of Playstation All-Stars.

The lesson here is only play online games where you can't directly communicate with anyone in a meaningful way.

---

As for the e-mail regarding Assassin's Creed and Dishonored, put me in the "This did nothing to attach me to the characters" camp. In fact, the opening sequence didn't have any meaning to me until I had already beaten the game, and thus knew who all the characters at the start were.

It may be a bit ridiculous to compare, but I feel like Xenoblade Chronicles did a much, much better job with its opening. Spoilers beyond for those who care.

Spoiler:

Xenoblade is a game that certainly knows how to take its time, and it encourages the player to take their time even during moments of "Oh my God this person is in danger!" But even if it didn't have a massive MMO style world, the opening would have been very effective in its call to action. You're introduced to a character that seems to be perfect Main Love Interest fodder with an outfit designed to sell figurines and body pillows at Akihabara. You briefly play as her looking for the main character. You get a moment to try and recall a memory with her that's supposed to be all sweet and endearing (and I consistently f*ck up). You get to explore the town with her. You go on the very first quest with her. She has what look like a set of permanent statistics and skills just as thought out as the other characters. All signs point to permanent party member and main love interest.

Yet the protagonist has visions that she'll die.

Okay, I played this JRPG before. The protagonist gets to use this power and change history. Gotcha. So when all seems lost, and the love interest leaps into a mech to try and take on the Big Bad, we know our hero is going to save her in time...

...any minute now...

...any minute...

............

...oh.

...oh, damn.

Just like the Empress, the love interest in Xenoblade (named Fiora, by the way, in case anyone was irritated at me avoiding proper names) essentially died so that the protagonist could have their revenge story. Now, I haven't beaten Xenoblade, so I wouldn't be surprised if his personal adventure for vengeance becomes a more altruistic cause, but it allowed me to understand and empathize with our plucky protagonist that has a defined personality and character as opposed to Corvo's very undefined and open-for-the-player blandness.

Disguising your stealth tutorial as time spent with a kid just isn't going to be enough to develop an emotional connection. What Xenoblade did is take its time at the opening to tell its story. There are ways that Dishonored could have managed this, but it effectively would have required an entire level in order to make it happen. Humorously enough, Thief manages to try this, introducing you to Garret and some other character that I'm not capable of remembering the name of since I'm not too far in the game yet (just beat Chapter Two). The only problem is, they merely succeeded in being glad the chick died, because holy sh*t was she irritating.

Even so, I like the idea of a game taking its time to begin the story. If you're going to bother having cut-scenes and dialogue and all that stuff, then make me care about it.

Now, I'm not completely ignorant or naive. I understand that there are an awful lot of players that want to just get into the action, minimizing the time spent in tutorials, and giving less than a half a sh*t about the story. I'd love to say at that point you should figure out who you really care about, but at AAA levels of budget you don't quite have an option. Even so, I think you could make a good argument that, in terms of Western design at least, players have been taught not to care about the story (in games that aren't RPG's). Is it possible to train players to give a damn? I dunno. I'd like to think so, but, eh.

TL;DR: Dishonored was total sh*t about making me care about the characters at the start, but I did loves me some sneakin' around. Also: some excellent use of teaching the player about how rats behave without having to spell it out at all, letting the environment and level design do it for them.

I play a lot of TF2 but mostly on the Monday/Friday community game nights. If I do go out to a pub server, it is almost always following another Goodjer. I usually throw in a liberal use of the "Mute" feature the game offers.

Things I like about pub servers:
- I am not very good, despite my time investment, but most pubbies are really really bad. This makes me feel like I am actually a good player.
- My Goodjer compadres and I will clean house which is always good times.
- Being accused of being a hacker is a wonderful complement, if you look at it the right way.
- Sometimes you discover a poor soul in the wilderness and can lead them, scarred, bleeding, yet alive, into the arms of Stan.

Things I do not like about pub servers:
- Are most young people today racist misogynistic assholes? Or just young people who play TF2 on pub servers?
- Do mic spammers really think they are funny?
- I fear for the future because of all the 12-year-old TF2 players. See point 1 for why.

Usually it is fun but only with another Goodjer is it fun for more than 10 minutes.

One of the questions was about how you react when you are having an off day/week when playing something you think you are good at. Now, I am not good at TF2 despite however many hours I have played the game but I do have certain expectations on how I play. Especially if I am stressed or otherwise grumpy, I will lose sight of why I play, which is to have fun. When I am in that state of mind and playing below my expectations, I will just walk away. Go read a book or watch a movie or have a talk with the kids. Come back later when my mind is clear. Then, I may stioll be bad but at least I am having fun again.

The last multiplayer experience I had was playing with pubbies in the PS3 version of Team Fortress 2.

My favorite session was during a 2fort map where it was just me and the guy on the other team.

It was actually an incredibly tense experience.

Playing games in the same room as my wife watching TV has its benefits. I don't have to communicate verbally.

But, I do feel saddened not being able to join in the chat with you guys on games like TF2 or Borderlands.

I've been a multiplayer ever since it's been available. When the new COD would come out, I'd be on it for weeks on end. I even got into the MOBA scene for a little, but subsequently backed out after it became so competitive. I couldn't even make a build that I liked, and actually played quite well with, because it clashed with someone else's beliefs (anyone ever told Shaco that he needs smite? yeah, well I liked the box method better....oops, I've been kicked).

However, during the podcast, I did some of my own soul searching and realized that slowly over the years, I've been pulled back into the single player mode much more than I realized. While I don't think the times of multiplayer have passed, the novelty of putting a headset on and talking with Dean from East Texas has worn off (especially if Dean is a pre-pubescent teen who shouts nonsense and obscenities for the entire game). Frankly, I'm getting older, my interest in explosions has worn down quite a bit, and I'm looking for something that can tug on my emotions (sorry, Michael Bay...movies, too). Furthermore, I see single player games trying to push the envelope in terms of differentiated play styles, that multiplayer games really just haven't done, in my opinion. The other day, I downloaded The Unfinished Swan, and while I've only made it through one chapter, it's an entirely different concept that I've never seen.

So next time I fire up my PS4, I'll be shooting paint blobs all over the place and listening to the sounds of a honking swan instead of Dean.

P.S. I still play RTS games with people I know because, as stated, no one has time to communicate (Is it wrong that I still play Sins of a Solar Empire?...it's just so good)

Someone should ask Cory to pronounce "multipass" on the next show

Alcoholic Crowbar wrote:

So next time I fire up my PS4, I'll be shooting paint blobs all over the place and listening to the sounds of a honking swan instead of Dean.

IMAGE(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/enough-internet.gif)

For public multiplayer, I would much rather do something PVE rather than PVP. My exception is Hearthstone, but I've gotten to a point in that game where I recognize good play, bad play, good luck, and bad luck (on both sides).

I usually play pub matches, but will mute people if it gets annoying. I prefer playing with my friends, but we are constantly playing different games. It's rare that we land on the same game. For those times I turn to pubs so that I don't have to put in a lot of effort to getting a group together. Can just hop in and back out and I'm OK. It helps that I'm not incredibly competitive. I just want to unwind.

I'm going all Infinite Crisis defence force today.

I'm not even particularly fond of MOBAs, but the new player experience in Infinite Crisis is now pretty great. It got a complete revamp late last year. It holds your hands for several levels, makes you try out different champion types and unlocks 5 permanent heroes by the time you finish, so you can guarantee access to characters you are familiar with, unlike Heroes which will swap them out on you eventually. You also have the basic terminology and recommended strategy down by that point, and the game reminds you about stuff periodically.

There is a 1-player map to learn basics of your champion and a 5vsAI mode. It's really pretty friendly to new players.

I really like the separated spoiler sections and I hope that it becomes the standard.

CannibalCrowley wrote:

I really like the separated spoiler sections and I hope that it becomes the standard.

I thought this was a donation drive promise: basically, all spoiler sections are going to be separated from the GWJCC and dropped into the feed as a stand-alone podcast.

Ah multiplayer... I used to do a lot of TF2 back in the day (three-four years ago). Then I had kids, and basically couldn't play anything I couldn't pause.

Yep, new site will have all spoiler sections separated out. Including backlog.

What does being chatty have to do with being named Cathy? I don't get it. Seems like a gendered insult you could have done without.

As for public multiplayer, I've done it in two games, Mass Effect 3 and Titanfall, both on PC. It's rare that people talk in either. I've found that bad matches/players are the exception rather than the rule, and if you run into problems, its no big deal to make the mute option your friend, or join a new match.

I find it bizarre that we afford less social interaction to people we spend a 20-60min multiplayer match than the person at the supermarket checkout, who would probably get a "Hi, how are you?" in the 30secs we scan our groceries in. I get that it's because people have been burned on memorable occasions by arseholes and bad mics, but I can't help but want to turn it around. If all the, let's call it 'GWJ quality' people get sucked into private matches as time goes on, the public ecosystem of the game becomes more concentrated with asreholes, which is so bad for new players and nice people playing solo. There has to be a better way.

Mermaidpirate wrote:

What does being chatty have to do with being named Cathy? I don't get it. Seems like a gendered insult you could have done without.

A literal talking doll from the 60's. I'm taking a pass on that one, I don't see any issue with it.

I find it bizarre that we afford less social interaction to people we spend a 20-60min multiplayer match than the person at the supermarket checkout, who would probably get a "Hi, how are you?" in the 30secs we scan our groceries in.

I'll often wish that there was better communication in public multiplayer games, if only to communicate tactical information.