Conference Call

GWJ Conference Call Episode 417

Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor, Card Dungeon, Live D&D, Civilization: Beyond Earth, Final Donation Drive Update!, Getting Away With Lifting Design Ideas, Your Emails and More!

This week Shawn and Julian are joined by JP Grant and the Editor in Chief of Escapist Magazine Greg Tito!

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.

Chairman_Mao's Timestamps
00.03.59 Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
00.32.40 Card Dungeon
00.36.50 God of Blades
00.37.32 Gemini Strike
00.38.16 Civilization: Beyond Earth
00.42.25 DnD for an audience
00.47.24 Mechanical keyboard porn
00.50.25 This week's topic: Stealing from the best!
01.04.02 Your emails!

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Comments

Shadows of Mordor - Does the shooty arrow traveling take you back to Just Cause (2) ?
Sounds pretty similar.
I applaud games that throw a new spin onto mechanics that are not only done really well, but that people have had a really good time using in the past.
I played Just Cause 2 for hours, and didn't get bored of that traversal method. I played Crackdown to death as well.
I always played Orcs as a kid in Warhammer 40K, and they were always my fave antagonists in D&D too. Orcs have more fun.
If I wasn't up to my eyeballs in Eve, I'd be getting this game to play, thanks to your enthusiasm.
Great guests as well guys.

pinkdino99 wrote:

Shadows of Mordor - Does the shooty arrow traveling take you back to Just Cause (2) ?

A bit, yeah, although I don't know that it's necessarily designed as primarily as a traversal mechanism like the grappling hook in JC2. To me it feels more like the Blink power in Dishonored, although the ability to use it to (1) kill enemies and (2) chain attacks & teleports over longer distances makes it more powerful.

I meant to mention how much this game does remind me of JC2, though, in the way it tosses you into its open world, gives you bunch of stuff to accomplish and upgrades to chase, and keeps the story elements from getting overbearing. JC2 is one of my all-time favorites as well!

kincher wrote:
pinkdino99 wrote:

Shadows of Mordor - Does the shooty arrow traveling take you back to Just Cause (2) ?

A bit, yeah, although I don't know that it's necessarily designed as primarily as a traversal mechanism like the grappling hook in JC2. To me it feels more like the Blink power in Dishonored, although the ability to use it to (1) kill enemies and (2) chain attacks & teleports over longer distances makes it more powerful.

I meant to mention how much this game does remind me of JC2, though, in the way it tosses you into its open world, gives you bunch of stuff to accomplish and upgrades to chase, and keeps the story elements from getting overbearing. JC2 is one of my all-time favorites as well!

Oh, I had no interest in the game until listening to the part of the CC I got to this morning and now this mention of JC2. It is now on my Steam Wishlist. Maybe when the GoTY edition drops...

The strategy guide for Dark Souls 2 is how I got through the game.

I'm very conflicted feeling about SoM. While the gameplay sounds like a blast, and the Nemesis system seems neat, the review of it in our Tropes vs. Recent Releases thread left me feeling icky.

Spoiler:

That literally every character is motivated by a fridged woman, in particular.

With a swath of games coming out that don't leave me feeling conflicted, I'll probably pass on it for now, and possibly for a while.

Tanglebones has a fair point, about being conflicted about the game, but I don't know if the game deserves to be shelved in this case.
In all of the talk I have heard about this game, and there has been a lot, no one has brought up the story except to say who the main character and the wraith are. Everyone seems so excited to tell their own stories that grew out of the game's mechanics.
To people who have played the game, has the story actually compelled you to play on or is it just a thing that gets in the way of you and your next target?

Moreover

Spoiler:

could the fridge-ing be replaced by 'that guy has a nice hat an I really want it'?

I've started SoM, and the story so far is that bad. I am three hours in and I haven't seen a female character except Talion's wife who gets fridged five minutes in.

Yes, an alternate plot may as well be The Hand of Sauron stole my had so murder, murder.

Having only played the first half of the first Assassins Creed game and none of the Batman Games... I do not feel that the designers relied on those experiences. I seem to have picked up the skills at about the same rate as others playing the game and I find mouse and keyboard to be very easy... although I always do.

As for the tropes thing...

Ehhh maybe I should go to that thread.

UpToIsomorphism wrote:

I've started SoM, and the story so far is that bad. I am three hours in and I haven't seen a female character except Talion's wife who gets fridged five minutes in.

So it's true to the source material?

Atras wrote:
UpToIsomorphism wrote:

I've started SoM, and the story so far is that bad. I am three hours in and I haven't seen a female character except Talion's wife who gets fridged five minutes in.

So it's true to the source material?

Even Fellowship had Rosie, the Sackville-Bagginses, Tom Bombadil's wife, Arwen..

Tanglebones wrote:
Atras wrote:
UpToIsomorphism wrote:

I've started SoM, and the story so far is that bad. I am three hours in and I haven't seen a female character except Talion's wife who gets fridged five minutes in.

So it's true to the source material?

Even Fellowship had Rosie, the Sackville-Bagginses, Tom Bombadil's wife, Arwen..

There's other, stronger female characters further in the story.

Spoiler:

Queen of the Shore, leader of her people. Her daughter is a fighter and fairly tough. Still needs rescuing, but she doesn't go easily. For what it's worth.

thank you for the tip on card dungeon. charming game. even though it's a bit on the crashy side at the moment (which can be quite a nerve test in a roughlike) i am really enjoying myself.

Couple comments about the podcast in general (not this specific one necessarily) but I really enjoyed when some of the content of the podcast was born out of discussions on the forum. It made the podcast feel more connected to the GWJ community. These days IMO the podcast feels almost like a seperate product.

Also I really enjoyed the retro show and while I don't think a full retro episode is necessary with so
Many games out these days I would love to hear you guys revisit a game that might have slipped the radar in the last couple years.

Specific to this show I was confused by the comment that the Xbox One's licensing was more restrictive than the PS4. Maybe I'm missing something but I can't seem to figure out what is more restrictive.

Great show as always though I'm loving SoM as much as you guys. I even revenged Rabbit the other day.

I really enjoyed when some of the content of the podcast was born out of discussions on the forum.

This is a great point I hadn't thought about in a while. I'm glad you brought it up.

Did anyone else hear a sound in the background? It sort of sounded like a car horn off in the distance. I hear it through the episode.

Elysium wrote:
I really enjoyed when some of the content of the podcast was born out of discussions on the forum.

This is a great point I hadn't thought about in a while. I'm glad you brought it up.

Yeah, I've been trying to speak to threads and discussions as a matter of course a bit more. We'll keep at it!

TheGameguru wrote:

Specific to this show I was confused by the comment that the Xbox One's licensing was more restrictive than the PS4. Maybe I'm missing something but I can't seem to figure out what is more restrictive.

I chalked that up to confusion on how it was initially announced versus the product that was released. The released product works identical to the 360 as far as I can tell.

I fully support the "thread of the week" idea.

I haven't got very far, and I realise that the Conference Call isn't a hard news thing, but does anyone address The Escapist's apparent support for a campaign of harassment and threats of violence against women with Greg?

https://storify.com/alexlifschitz/es...

*edit*

From long before the CC was recorded.

http://www.donotlink.com/bzzq

MrDeVil909 wrote:

I haven't got very far, and I realise that the Conference Call isn't a hard news thing, but does anyone address The Escapist's apparent support for a campaign of harassment and threats of violence against women with Greg?

No, because the second part of that feature (the one talking with male developers) didn't go online until yesterday.

shoptroll wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

I haven't got very far, and I realise that the Conference Call isn't a hard news thing, but does anyone address The Escapist's apparent support for a campaign of harassment and threats of violence against women with Greg?

No, because the second part of that feature (the one talking with male developers) didn't go online until yesterday.

Yeah, which is why I added the link to Greg's editorial from a month ago. The blow up was yesterday, but it wasn't the beginning.

Oh wait, the donotlink URL is doing something wonky.

*edit*

Oh well, guess I'm forced to link them directly them

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...

I think suggesting The Escapist and Greg are "supporting GG" is a bit of a stretch. They've given it more airtime than I think it deserves for sure, but Greg's editorial, while perhaps a bit naive, is hardly encouraging a campaing of harassment and threats:

"I do not support harassment by gamers or of gamers. Abuse is wrong, no matter what you believe or who you support. Engaging in debate is important. Publicly stating ethics policies is important. Encouraging all voices to participate in the discussion is important. Insulting, abusing and harassing those who disagree with you is bullsh*t.

Please stop."

Seems pretty clear. Where I think you disagree with him is that there's a debate to had with these folks.

The problem is that I am quite certain there are many folks who feel exactly like greg does in this one paragraph: Debate is good, harassment is bad. The Harassers have coopted the debate, so it's essentially impossible to unentangle it now.

The latest stuff from the last week? I just don't even know what to say about it honestly. I actually think greg's a good guy doing the best he can and making mistakes, and perhaps some choices I wouldn't make. But I don't think he's encouraging abuse.

That's not a fair assessment, though; this isn't an article about "debate". This is an article where one side was drawn from a coterie of people who have been clearly been all about nothing but harassment. For God's sake, we're talking about a "movement" where one of The Escapist's alleged "debaters" from the pro-GG side apparently wrote an article entitled "In Defense of Rape". This isn't a movement about debate. If I'm going to talk about pedophilia, does this mean I need to invite members of NAMBLA to give their side of the "discussion"? Do I need to place men who regularly beat up women on a panel about domestic violence to get their rationalizations for their actions? And yes, I'm currently wielding the hyperbole bat so hard my rhetorical device is in danger of bursting into flame, but that's completely intentional. By calling "gamergate" a "debate", it legitimizes both points of view while completely ignoring the fact the people The Escapist invited were sourced from @#!! 4chan, and one of those dickholes is one of the catalysts for the abuse of Zoe Quinn.

I have no doubt The Escapist could have actually gone out of their way to actually do some groundwork and write a real article with viable sources talking about the pretense of "corruption" in the gaming industry but, rather than that, they pushed forth a pile of click-bait garbage which helps make the kind of vicious misogyny these 4chan asshats are so proud of even more acceptable on the internet.

If you provide a platform for someone who has engaged in harassment by interviewing them -- harassment that has centered around the subject matter of the interview -- you are encouraging harassment, no matter how noble your intentions may be. Full stop.

Like I said, I think he's made some significant mistakes and made some bad choices. I'm agreeing with you on that. I think suggesting that this means he's PERSONALLY in favor of harassing women into submission is painting with a broad, nonsensical brush.

rabbit wrote:

Like I said, I think he's made some significant mistakes and made some bad choices. I'm agreeing with you on that. I think suggesting that this means he's PERSONALLY in favor of harassing women into submission is painting with a broad, nonsensical brush.

Can't really respond at length at the moment, but I'll clarify, just in case. I'm not saying that GWJ is encouraging here; I'm specifically referring to the Escapist's decision -- which involves Tito, as EiC -- to run yesterday's developer interviews about GG.

OzymandiasAV wrote:
rabbit wrote:

Like I said, I think he's made some significant mistakes and made some bad choices. I'm agreeing with you on that. I think suggesting that this means he's PERSONALLY in favor of harassing women into submission is painting with a broad, nonsensical brush.

Can't really respond at length at the moment, but I'll clarify, just in case. I'm not saying that GWJ is encouraging here; I'm specifically referring to the Escapist's decision -- which involves Tito, as EiC -- to run yesterday's developer interviews about GG.

Totally agree with this, and also agree with rabbit in that this doesn't mean Tito is some kind of sexist or misogynist. He is, for better or worse, in a position where the steps he took professional gave credence to a deeply sexist and misogynist movement. The Escapist article is patently repulsive, and by virtue of being EIC, yes, he has to sit in the crosshairs. That's what that position entails.

I have no doubt he's in all likelihood a "good guy", but he's a "good guy" who made a really reprehensible editorial decision. That's what he and The Escapist are receiving very-deserved criticism for.

Greg doesn't seem like a bad dude or to be acting out of malice, but it's something that's been discussed a lot in the last few years that 'neutrality' in an unbalanced system isn't neutral, it's an action for the status quo.

When one side is hounding women out of their home and work, saying something like "I do not support harassment by gamers or of gamers. Abuse is wrong, no matter what you believe or who you support. Engaging in debate is important. Publicly stating ethics policies is important. Encouraging all voices to participate in the discussion is important. Insulting, abusing and harassing those who disagree with you is bullsh*t" is trying to be impartial between the fire and the firefighter.

Elysium wrote:
I really enjoyed when some of the content of the podcast was born out of discussions on the forum.

This is a great point I hadn't thought about in a while. I'm glad you brought it up.

I'm going to +1 this because I didn't realize it either.

As I said in previous threads, we can have a debate on reviews, the importance of reviews, and the relationships between game companies and the enthusiast press. But NOTHING about #gamersgate was born out of that need of discussion. Rather, it was born from anti-feminism, misogyny, and a fear of progressive thinkers influencing games too much. There is a reason this movement initialized around Zoe Quinn (and not the journalist she supposedly slept with--whose name I intentionally omit to see who remembers it) and Anita Sarcheesian (a game critic who has nothing to do with the stated goals of #gamersgate). And three is a reason that it has been women harassed to the point where they don't feel safe in their homes and not male social justice warriors. This entire movement is about censuring female voices in the games industry.

You can't give equal voices to the attackers and the attacked and call it unbiased coverage.