Trying to decide on a few Lenovo gaming laptops.

Well it looks like my aging non-gaming laptop is on its last legs. Instead of buying another mid-range replacement, I thought it would be fun to invest the extra monies to upgrade for gaming capabilities. I've been out of PC gaming for over 10 years, but recent "indie" titles like Legend of Grimrock and Euro Truck Simulator 2 have had me pining to dive back in.

Now I'd love to invest in a nice tower where I could switch out graphics cards and such every few years, but the reality is that my physical space and computing habits make this a non-starter. So I've got a $1K budget to nab a laptop that can play mostly PC exclusives for the next few years. I'll likely be getting the new Xbox this year, so I'm not looking for a PC rig to game on exclusively, I just want to enjoy the offbeat titles as mentioned above that consoles never seem to get.

Anyway, after digging around a bit, it seems like the Lenovo Y5xx line currently gives you the best gaming bang for your buck. Now I just need to figure out which model to go with. Here's where I need your tech guru's help. I've narrowed it down to 3 options and was looking for some feedback.

IdeaPad Y580 - $849 configuration
Processor - 3rd Generation Intel Core i7-3630QM Processor( 2.40GHz 1600MHz 6MB)
Operating system - Windows 8 64
Graphics - NVIDIA GeForce GTX660M 2GB
Memory - 6.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
Display - 15.6" HD Glare with integrated camera 1366x768
Pointing device - Industry Standard Multi-touch 2 button touchpad
hard drive - 750GB 5400 RPM
Optical Drive - DVD Recordable (Dual Layer)
Battery - 6 Cell Li-Polymer
Network Card - Intel Centrino Wireless-N 2200BGN
Bluetooth - Bluetooth Version 4.0
Camera - Integrated HD Camera
HDMI - HDMI (Out)

IdeaPad Y500 $879 configuration
Processor- 3rd Generation Intel Core i7-3630QM Processor( 2.40GHz 1600MHz 6MB)
Operating system - Windows 8 64
Graphics - NVIDIA GeForce GT650M 2GB
Memory - 8.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
Display - 15.6" FHD LED Glare Wedge 1920x1080
Pointing device - Industry Standard Multi-touch 2 button touchpad
hard drive - 1TB 5400RPM+16GB SSD
Optical Drive - DVD Recordable (Dual Layer)
Battery - 6 Cell Li-Polymer
Network Card - Intel Centrino Wireless N-2230
Bluetooth - Bluetooth Version 4.0
Camera - Integrated HD Camera
HDMI - HDMI (Out)

IdeaPad Y580 $1,100 configuration
Processor - 2.3 GHz Intel Core i7
RAM - 8 GB DIMM
Hard Drive - 1 TB SATA
Graphics Coprocessor - NVIDIA GeForce GTX660M
Graphics Card Ram Size - 2 GB

So what do you guys think? The easy answer is to go with the $1,000 model 'cause it's bigger, badder, and more bad-ass, but I have to be honest the price discrepancy between $850 and $1.1K is kind of big in my mind. The $879 Y500 model seems like a happy medium as it has the 1TB HDD and 8GB RAM just like the $1.1K Y580, but at the price of an older graphics card. Would it be wiser to do the inverse and go with the $850 Y580 for the newest graphics card (losing 250GB HDD and 2 GB RAM)? Listening to myself reason it out, I feel more comfortable shooting for these two models. Is there a compelling argument to go for broke and nab the $1.1K Y850 version?

The prospect of finally having a gaming rig after all these years sounds totally exciting, but at the same time it's nerve-wracking as hell. Decisions, decisions.

What say you, GWJ techies?

Going by the non-mobile chips, I'd ignore the $879 one because the 650 GPU is really poor in comparison to the 660. You're looking at less than half the performance from this page.

The other two seem to be the same but linked to different places (typo in the model name?) so just get the cheaper one.

Yikes! I didn't realize the disparity in the two cards was that great.

For the links, the first two are direct from Lenovo's site, which seemed to have the best deals on those models.

The 3rd link is from Amazon, that has the beefed up Y580, at $1,100 if you click at the alternate seller on the right. Looks like I typo'ed the model number.

I guess the $850 Y580 is the best bet at this point?

I have one similar to the $1100 option (mine has a BR drive), and love it. It's the 660M, not the 650M as I put in the OP. The only problems that I have had are due to Win 8 compatibility and NVidi Optimus. The battery is pretty poor too, but most are for games, I gather.

It's big, heavy and kinda ugly, but the portability was more in the home for me, so nine of that mattered.

My big piece of advice is to download the newest drivers for the 660M and do a clean install as soon as you get it, and tell Nvidia control panel to use the 660M as default.

You won't be running Crysis 3 anywhere near max, but it has coped with what I have thrown at it really well. Mostly, I have been catching up with older games, but the likes of Just Cause 2 have been suitably sweet on the highest settings after some initial dicking around.

The keyboard is very nice, the trackpad is a pain, but that is due to Win 8's gestures and menus. General performance is very snappy, and installs etc blaze past.

Thanks for the thoughts, spider_j.

If you'll indulge me, I might take you up on some details about updating the Nvidia drivers (not sure what a clean install means) if I get my hands on the laptop.

Certainly, it's actually very easy. I forgot to link to my own post: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/114323

Not exactly on topic, but it covers my experiences. Someone gave me Colonial Marines today, which was a nice thought at least, so I will be installing my first 2013 retail game on there tonight. I'll let you know how it goes.

The double post was from the iPad, not the laptop!

You don't have to worry so much about installs and drivers on a Lenovo, not like other laptops. I've been using a beefed-up Y570 for about 18 months and it's been the most reliable laptop I've owned (many). NVidia has finally fixed updating mobile cards sometime in the last few years, so the "crashes? update your graphics card" problems of yore are gone.

Are you sure you have to get Windows 8? I'd stick with 7 if you possibly can.

Don't get the first one. 5400 RPM these days will bottleneck everything else. I'd also be concerned that the SATA on the third one may also be connected to a non-SSD drive. #2 looks good from the storage perspective.

Keithustus, I'm not so much worried about storage capacity (750GB HDD vs. 1TB) as I am giving up 2GB of RAM (8 vs. 6).

Scratched's post seemed to indicate that sacrificing a NVIDIA GeForce GTX660M over a NVIDIA GeForce GT650M 2GB was a greater loss.

Any thoughts on this trade off?

Ripped from the [H] forums.. apparently you can make a B&N employee account and order a Y500 with SLI 650M's

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhzero1984
Still can't decide if I should go for this or take advantage of Lenovo's sale on the non-SLI version with the i7 + 16GB SSD for $879.
If you create an account using the Barne's & Noble employee page:

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/c...

That same configuration is only $839, and then the 2nd SLI video card can be purchased seperately for $120:

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/c...

Bringing the total to about $960 to get the I7 cpu, SSD, SLI graphics, and optical drive. Also if you're interested, the additional warranties are discounted quite a bit. The 3-year accidental damage warranty is only $120 when you're logged in through the B&N page.

Aaron D. wrote:

Keithustus, I'm not so much worried about storage capacity (750GB HDD vs. 1TB) as I am giving up 2GB of RAM (8 vs. 6).

I wasn't looking at the RAM....RAM is relatively easy to upgrade. Hard drive technology, though, do you really want a very, very old and slow technology in a laptop you're using for games? Stick to systems with SSD.

Scratched wrote:

Going by the non-mobile chips, I'd ignore the $879 one because the 650 GPU is really poor in comparison to the 660. You're looking at less than half the performance from this page.

Desktop GPU comparisons are irrelevant to the mobile GPUs as far as the model numbering goes.
GT-650M GTX-660M

Now I'd love to invest in a nice tower where I could switch out graphics cards and such every few years, but the reality is that my physical space and computing habits make this a non-starter. So I've got a $1K budget to nab a laptop that can play mostly PC exclusives for the next few years.

Honestly, you're not going to get a very good laptop for that much money, at least not for gaming. $1K would buy you a desktop that would sing and dance its way through anything on the market, but getting the kind of power to make games really fly, in a portable form, is very expensive.

Really, it comes down to heat. A powerful desktop can devote 200 watts of power to just the video card, and then another 150 or so to the CPU and motherboard. Laptops typically have a budget of 30 to 40 watts for the entire machine. Getting a laptop that plays games well, in that kind of constraint, is something of an engineering miracle, and, well, miracles are expensive.

I'm not that familiar with laptops and current Lenovos, but I suspect you'd probably need to spend more like $2K to $2500 to get something really good. And then you have the issue of fragility; laptops break, and are really expensive to fix. I think it was Elysium who lost a gaming laptop awhile back, where the video card fried itself because of poor cooling (ie, bad engineering on the company's part), and the company wanted something like $650 to fix it.

If you can work out the desktop space issue, you could get much better gaming for a lot less money. Buying a gaming PC and a cheapo utility laptop would also work well. If your gaming has to be in laptop format, well, you can do it, but you have to spend big dollars to get something strong enough to have anywhere near as much power, and then if something breaks, you're out a bunch of money again.

If you're willing to stick with older titles, you can usually do all right with a midrange machine. And older games tend to go on big big sales on Steam, so you can get a lot of great stuff for not much coin at all.

Malor's right on that one. A laptop makes certain trade-offs usually prioritising mobility (duh), lower heat output and low power consumption.

If space is an issue, you can get something that has most of the strengths of a desktop in a more compact form. If you're looking to buy something right now, those laptops will probably do fairly well, but I imagine if you take a little thinking time you can put together a small microATX or miniITX PC that's really nice.

Who would want a laptop when you can have this?

The OP kinda stated that while he would love a gaming desktop that his current situation precludes it.. kinda weird to then tell him.. buy a desktop PC. I've been forced into laptop gaming now for basically 90% of my gaming time.. my home is under massive renovations so I've been sans Office and Basement for about 8 months.. so PC gaming for me has been regulated to my Alienware M18x on a round dining room table and my Alienware M14x when I hit the road. I think the SLI Lenovo I linked would provide a pretty good 1080P gaming experience for under $1K.

Well, yes, and I even quoted the part where he said he couldn't have a desktop. But I was pushing back on that a little, because high-powered laptop gaming is really expensive, so I was trying to make sure he was really certain that a desktop wouldn't work.

I can't check what you recommended, because it looks like the pages have been taken down.

Its not a link to the actual laptop.. so not sure what happened when I cut and pasted it from [H].. The original thread has the hardware in question..

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?...

I believe the Y500 on sale on Lenovo's site in question is close to this model

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...

Thanks for all the responses gang. Looks like I've narrowed it down to two models. The Y500 or the Y580.

Now here's the kicker. I have to decide within the NEXT 36 HOURS in order to take advantage of the weekly special both models are on sale for.

Combining the Weekly Sale with the B&N discount (Thanks, TheGameguru!) here's what it boils down to.

IdeaPad Y500
MSRP: $1,349.
Sale price: $839.
Savings: $510.

IdeaPad Y580
MSRP: $999.
Sale price: $819.
Savings: $180.

Seems like there's a much larger discount on the Y500 and I'm leaning that way.

The tradeoffs are basically:

Y500:
NVIDIA GeForce GT650M 2GB
RAM: 8.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
HDD: 1TB 5400RPM+16GB SSD (Keithustus says this is more important than NVIDIA 650 vs 660.)

Y580:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX660M 2GB (Scratched thinks this is important compared to the 650.)
RAM: 6.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
HDD: 750GB 5400 RPM

Now a couple things I've read.

1. The GT650M can be overclocked to match the GT660M (though I have no clue how to do that stuff).
2. The Y500 is SLi compatible, but the Y580 isn't? Strange.
3. The Y500 has a removable slot where you can put in a fan, another graphics card, etc. I guess the Y580 doesn't.
4. In a couple online PC mag reviews, the Y500 is being labeled a Gamer Rig, while the Y580 is noted as business use first, gaming second. Could just be the sites I landed on though.

So in light of all this, what do you guys think? I know I’m not going to get PC Tower performance for this amount of money, but it has to be a laptop and spending a few hundred over the initial $500 I expected to pay for a non-gaming laptop seems like a fair deal (vs. paying $2K+ for a real, real gaming laptop).

You can also add the SLI option on the Y500 from the B&N website.. I would only go with the Y500 if you get the SLI version.. the GT650M is really a slightly OC'd GTX550M that Nvidia rebranded.. the GTX660M is based on the Kepler GPU and is a true "current gen" GPU. That being said I would say for the most part SLI 650M's will outperform the single GTX660M in any game that benefited from SLI.

edit..

I bought a i5 Y500 with SLI 650's for a cheap "portable" gaming laptop.. I'm playing with it right now getting it configured.. I pulled out the HD and Memory and replaced it with a Crucial 512GB M4 SSD and 16GB of RAM.. I noticed an M-Sata slot as well (on mine it was empty) and realized I could also add a 256GB Crucial M4 M-Sata card as well..

Downside is that the BIOS is super stripped down and will not support RAID of any sorts.. apparently Lenovo uses a "software" based Smart Caching technology in the models that ship with an HD and a 16GB SSD (in the M-Sata slot).. It is NOT the Intel SRT technology (which really relies on the Intel Southbridge to do the RAID)

Aaron D. wrote:

Do I have to add the SLI option during checkout? It's not a standard part of the Y500 linked above?

yeah...

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/c...

Is the link.. hopefully it works.

Do I have to add the SLI option during checkout? It's not a standard part of the Y500 linked above?

TheGameguru wrote:

edit..

I bought a i5 Y500 with SLI 650's for a cheap "portable" gaming laptop.. I'm playing with it right now getting it configured.. I pulled out the HD and Memory and replaced it with a Crucial 500GB M4 SSD and 16GB of RAM.. I noticed an M-Sata slot as well (on mine it was empty) and realized I could also add a 256GB Crucial M4 M-Sata card as well..

Downside is that the BIOS is super stripped down and will not support RAID of any sorts.. apparently Lenovo uses a "software" based Smart Caching technology in the models that ship with an HD and a 16GB SSD (in the M-Sata slot).. It is NOT the Intel SRT technology (which really relies on the Intel Southbridge to do the RAID)

Heh. What alien being mind-controlled Gameguru, 'cause he's not speaking in any tongue I've ever heard! Do we need to call an exorcist?

(aka, Yikes! That all went completely over my head.)

Got it. That extra kit knocks the price up to around $1K. I was happier around the $800+ range.

Aaron D. wrote:

Got it. That extra kit knocks the price up to around $1K. I was happier around the $800+ range.

/nod Thats why I posted my post.. IMO the Y500 is not worth it unless you get the SLI.. if you don't stick with the Y580. The 5400 RPM HD bites the big one though.. bleh.

Y500. Again, HDD: 750GB 5400 RPM on Y580 will have you pulling your hair out because it's so old and slow and clunky.

Malor wrote:

I'm not that familiar with laptops and current Lenovos, but I suspect you'd probably need to spend more like $2K to $2500 to get something really good.

As a longtime laptop gamer and current satisfied Lenovo user, I'm glad to report that your numbers are quite inflated. It's perfectly fine the quality of gaming you can do on a $1000-$1500 Lenovo. Not Crysis 3, good, but I run XCOM at max or near max, etc.

Yeah I'll throw in saying that you don't need to spend 2k plus. I bought my laptop ~18 months ago, for 1.1 or 1.2k, it's a Clevo rebrand, Core i7 quad, 560m, 1080p screen. It happily plays all my games, usually around max detail and resolution. Do I get 32xAA? Well, no, but having 1080p on a 15" screen doesn't really require that either.

For Aaron D, I would suggest looking at what you're willing to give up. 6gb vs 8gb ram, may be a big difference for you. Might be none, it depends on if you multitask and use up the RAM.

To me, screen resolution is important, and I would never consider going back to 1366x768. But then again, I work on my laptop, as well as game. For gaming, it can actually help with graphic settings as 768p is much easier to push than 1080p

I'm 100% on board with having a faster hard drive. It's one of the biggest bottlenecks that the majority of people overlook. That being said, it's a similar upgrade as the RAM, usually super easy to swap out one. If you have a bit of a budget in the future, I'd say they both have 5400rpm drives, even though the Y500 has a 16gb SSD (I assume just for cache), I would consider looking out for deals on SSD's. A newer 120gb-256gb SSD will speed your computer up in ways you never thought possible.

I have to say, I have noticed a vast bottleneck on my Y580 due to the 5600rpm drive, but then, I am new to PC gaming. I certainly haven't had to wait for anything to the point where I got impatient at all.

For what it is worth, I have Aliens:CM running at full quality with no framerate issues, though there is some screen tearing. Since I am not sure what governs improving that, I don't know how easy a fix it is.

Screen tearing is fixed with vsync. The tradeoff can be potentially reduced FPS if you're not running at a solid 60+

Also, yes, the hard drive isn't going to help at all with FPS. Just load times and general snappy feeling of your system

Boy, this sure does feel like "Duck Season!...Rabbit Season!...Duck Season!" :p

One thing I thought of is that if I simply went with the base Y500 I'd have the non-bottleneck HDD and a vacant port to upgrade in the future if need be.

How do you think games like Civ 5, Grimrock, etc. would run on the Y500 without an extra card upgrade (just the GeForce GT650M 2GB)?

While I had experience working with PC tower rigs in the past, I never ran two graphic cards consecutively. How does that work? Do I have to tell each game I install which or both cards to use? Is that a system-level toggle? How do I know which is best? Is it a case by case basis where I would have to toggle one card on and off as I switched games?

I don't think the 650m will have any problems with those games.

As much as picking parts for your PC should be a "by the numbers" affair, it's still very based on opinions and often emotion for one reason or another.

I'm going to say, and I'm sure others will disagree with me here, but I wouldn't doubt the 650m will be too much of an issue. Even at 1080p (which I think is an awesome resolution for a laptop), for most games if they don't run at max resolution and details, oftentimes the difference between playable and unplayable will be lowering one or two settings. It's often one of the newer settings that really tax graphics cards, or sometimes it's still shadows that need to be set to medium or low.

As always, it depends on the main end goal, and what's important to you personally.

Aaron D. wrote:

Boy, this sure does feel like "Duck Season!...Rabbit Season!...Duck Season!" :p

One thing I thought of is that if I simply went with the base Y500 I'd have the non-bottleneck HDD and a vacant port to upgrade in the future if need be.

How do you think games like Civ 5, Grimrock, etc. would run on the Y500 without an extra card upgrade (just the GeForce GT650M 2GB)?

While I had experience working with PC tower rigs in the past, I never ran two graphic cards consecutively. How does that work? Do I have to tell each game I install which or both cards to use? Is that a system-level toggle? How do I know which is best? Is it a case by case basis where I would have to toggle one card on and off as I switched games?

SLI is a toggle you select in the Nvidia control panel and generally forget about it.. no need for telling a game to use it or not.. its all done automagically. Any game that doesnt take advantage of SLI will generally still run without any issues.. its a rare time you have a game crash because of SLI.

Well after wringing my hands over it all day I finally pulled the trigger and went with...

...drumroll....

The Y500 with Dual SLI!

**trumpet fanfare**

I kept coming back to the modular nature of the Y500 coupled with the SSD HDD. I told myself that I'd just see how the single GT650M card went and if worst came to worst I'd just double up on it. I still was uneasy about the 650/660 trade-off until it dawned on me that the only way I was going to be fully confident was just to bite the bullet and pony up for the extra SLI option. I figured I was using the B&N discount anyway so I might as well go for it while the getting was good.

Yea! I'm pumped now. Grimrock and Euro Truck Sim 2...you will be mine.

Thank you guys SOOOOO much for being willing to get your hands dirty in explaining the pros and cons of these laptops. It made a world of difference in giving me food for thought.

You will now have the honor of fielding some really stupid questions as a get my feet wet again with the gaming aspect of the gear.

Party time!