The leftist media will not allow a moderate Democrat to get the nomination. If someone like Evan Bayh ran, he would be shut down by the far left.

If it does, we won''t see or hear about it frankly because it''s a sign of weakness in the face of the opponent. I''ve read articles calling for the introspect to stop on MSNBC and on Slate magazine.

Here is an example: http://slate.msn.com/id/2109218/

Maybe they just fail to understand whats going on as Robert Reich, the former secretary of Labor in the Clinton administration points out and we should distract them away from their core ethics:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109190/

This isn''t about winning over voters, its about educating the ignorant and who is more ignorant than southerners who adhere to an ethical code based on a religion?

The introspect will only take place as a means to perhaps, lead voters in your direction with charming words based on an examination of the polling data. The democratic ticket lost, but its not their fault, its the voters who failed to see the light that cost them so much.

Its not treated as a loss, its a victory for the other side, there is no admitting a defeat, just a misguided victory by the opposing voters and over time we will certainly see a wide range of people lampooned as fool, their guiding priciples questioned and their regional affiliation used as a sign of disconnection with the ""real world"", that is to say, the liberal world.

As for a ""right wing christian block"" keeping out a liberal democrat, no, the general populace will do that job on it''s own from auto workers to farmers to businessmen and women. This is simple misdirection from the fact that, while a large percentage of certain groups vote for Bush, those who do not fit in these stereotypes are being marginalized in order to provide a scapegoat for a loss. How many southern hicks vote in northern and southern Ohio that tipped the state to Bush? what about the Rocky mountain state? What classification or stereotype can we place them in to marginalize them and their votes?

I gave Kerry the same shot I gave Bush for my vote. He failed to convince me he was a better candidate or his administration could serve the country. This is the truth of the election by three million votes. The ethics questions, the war divergence, all can be attributed to a simple lack of communication and campaigning on Kerry''s part. To say religion swayed people to vote against their desires is no different than blaming relgion and little different than blaming any other choice of ethical or moral choice for a loss.

The system as it is needs to drop the cynical attitude towards those who do not agree with them, the loss of the 2004 election should be a wake-up call but I don''t think many will be able to do this in a genuine sense, next time around, it will be about trying to lead as many voters to this ""truth"" and if need be, distract the voters in the new scapegoat groups with enough shiny words to hopefully, get them to vote for you.

Heaven forbid you try to earn their respect.

Ok. You guys crack me up. It''s like squirting water at a cat. The cat gets all pissy but has no idea what the hell just happened.

Ok. Here''s my 2 cents, cuz I know you were asking, on this whole right wing/left wing no moderate can get elected non-sense.

Fact: The Religious Majority in the US rallied behind a candidate this Fall. Something that has not happened in a while and has set the DNC on its ear in that they are really, really unsure as to how to proceed.

Fact: For some reason, the campaign messages from both camps got lost in the BS that is last minute campaigning. Somehow, the Bush Campaign managed to score a hit with the moral values talking point, but there is little hope of pulling this off a second time.

So, in a few more years, there will be an event that will rock the GOP to its core; the Republican Primaries will commence. You will be able to sit back and watch as significant members of the GOP turn on our president and sell him out as a ''lame duck president'', a questionable leader, etc. (Remember, most Americans viewed this election as a lesser of two evils). The GOP message will get fractured, lost and beaten to a pulp. The DNC, hopefully for all you currently browsing the ''movetocanada.com'' web sites will have had a chance to (1) review who actually votes in this country and (2) how to run a campaign that will unseat the republicans from note only the white house but also the house or senate. Something they will desperately need to move their agenda forward.

Now, the US federal government, in my humble opinion, is at it''s best when the house and senate are controlled by one party and the white house is controlled by another. Only the truly important legislation passes and the little stuff is killed off for what it is, partisan politics. Say what you will, but my hope is that the DNC will take either the house or senate in ''06. It will force W to actually have to work his last two years in office.

Not to mention the NRA doesn''t particuliarly like him. Of course they end up just towing the party line anyway, after they bitch and moan for a few weeks, so I guess it isn''t that big of a deal.

You know, I used to really like him. But as the illegal immigrant debate''s been heating up again in light of Bush''s amnesty plan, I''ve discovered that he''s about as pro as pro can get for illegal immigrants. I can''t vote for that. In fact, in light of Bush bringing his amnesty back up so quick, I''m a bit embarassed I voted for him. I should have just abstained.

For one, he seems to be a big proponent of Bush''s ''guest worker program''. Apparenty even wants to ''improve'' on it:

http://washtimes.com/national/20041110-123424-5467r.htm

The last time Bush brought this crap up, there was an increased surge in illegals crossing the border. Can''t see how it''s going to be any different this time.

edit: Not to overly dereail this thread, but I found more. Check his own website:

http://friendsofmccain.com/news/dspnews.cfm?id=177

My comment was a paraphrase of the sentiment and quotes shown in the first link I posted. In more than a few cases, this outlook is more than hinted at, it is presented as a reasonable answer to the outcome of the election.

Some wish to resign the results of the election to a fluke and blame a specific group. I was merely reflecting this concept ( which I find offensive) in sarcasm to prove my point. Nothing more than that Farscry.

Your closing is a perfect representation of how I feel about this marginalizing outlook, its ignorant, hateful, and renders the argument not worthy of serious consideration

Thanks for the kind word Jason.

This kind of thing doesn''t help, either.

http://www.bju.edu/letter

I think McCain''s ship may have already sailed. Putting aside his health and age, and the question of whether he can win a Republican nomination (in my opinion, he can''t), he is no longer the Democrat''s worst dream. His support of Bush over the last year and, more importantly, how he has expressed that support has lost him tremendous levels of support from the mainstream and moderate left.

How do I know? Four years ago I volunteered for him. Volunteered hard for him. He kept my attention and my support up to about sixteen months ago. Then he crushed it. Speaking with moderates that also supported him four years ago, he is going to be in substantial difficulty.

In my opinion, he cannot win the primary and -- assuming, arguendo, that he does -- he will not win the general election.

Rudy is the guy the Democrats need to worry about. Whether he can win the Republican primary is another issue . . . .

I think its Rudy G in 08...

the horror of it all...I''d be voting for a New Yawker for pres...(which I''d prob do...have to see who the Dem nominee is)

*begins shuddering uncontrollably...*

It sounds like this guy wants a Theocracy.. tell him to move to Iran!

Yes Before 9/11 Rudy''s career was going to head into the realm of Mayor Ed Koch. His popularity was low, he had prostate cancer, and he was having an affair with his now wife. It took his now ""legendary leadership skills"" after 9/11 to resurrect his political career. He could probably coast on that and a Bush endorsement and he would win.

Or Iraq in a year or so.