Playstation All-Stars: Hunger Games (PS3)

Ha, only three?! I get tired of arcade mode around 5 fights in. I thought Brawl's Emissary mode was a complete failure, but at least they tried something different. A happy medium is MK's story mode, where there's an excellent story presentation, and they even switch up the fighters you play as.

I think I'm done with this game. The latest update added items that can kill. One thing I really like about Battle Royale over Smash is the fact that items were not a big deal. Now, not so much. Bye bye Battle Royale. It was a short fun ride.

EverythingsTentative wrote:

I think I'm done with this game. The latest update added items that can kill. One thing I really like about Battle Royale over Smash is the fact that items were not a big deal. Now, not so much. Bye bye Battle Royale. It was a short fun ride.

WTH? I'll have to take a peak at this. Can't you just toggle that off?

That's a really annoying thing that they have done. An item could swing a battle when you were running low on special, but to make it possible to win a battle with items alters the entire basis of a game.

I... don't know how I didn't have this thread on favorites. Oh well, fixed.

DSGamer wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

I think I'm done with this game. The latest update added items that can kill. One thing I really like about Battle Royale over Smash is the fact that items were not a big deal. Now, not so much. Bye bye Battle Royale. It was a short fun ride.

WTH? I'll have to take a peak at this. Can't you just toggle that off?

Medusa's Gaze acts as a free L1 super. It's moderate range, single hit, and rarely appears. I've seen it show up 2 times in about 20 matches so far. And yes, you can turn items off, though sadly you can't selectively turn some items off and leave others on.

I'm not sure why they thought the game needed an item that could KO. That said it is only a single item, and it does have the lowest spawn rate of all items, so I wouldn't go writing the game off just because of this one change. Matches will still be predominantly decided by who is the most skilled player, since you can earn an L1 super in a single combo and get triple kills with most of them.

I've been plowing through arcade mode on All Stars difficulty while commuting to/from work. I've finished up to Radec, and I'm 75% done with his. So far not a huge challenge, the AI follows pretty predictable patterns, with the sole exception of Sly Cooper. That raccoon can die in a fire, he made me so mad while playing as Fat Princess that I wanted to smash my Vita.

EDIT: Just want to re-iterate, it's only a single item that was added that can KO. I think there might be just a *little* bit of overreaction going on here, it's not like all items were suddenly changed to get you kills.

EDIT 2: SRK has a Wiki for PSABR now, with AP gain for all moves, and AP cost of all supers, updated to 1.02. There's some very useful data here.

The more I think about it the more frustrated I become because of the question you asked, why did they feel the need to add it? I've only ever seen it drop late in a match, where one kill really matters, especially if you play stock or kills.

If I could choose which items to disable, no big deal. But not having items at all, I guess is better but not ideal.

EverythingsTentative wrote:

The more I think about it the more frustrated I become because of the question you asked, why did they feel the need to add it? I've only ever seen it drop late in a match, where one kill really matters, especially if you play stock or kills.

If I could choose which items to disable, no big deal. But not having items at all, I guess is better but not ideal.

The developers were on Weekend Confirmed a couple of weeks ago. I really enjoyed hearing from them because they talked about approaching the game from the angle of a traditional fighter. So rather than trying to build "Smash Bros" they were trying to build a character driver brawler with mechanics closer to a Street Fighter. I appreciated, successful or not, that this was their angle. I'm pretty sure that people would be in arms about the equivalent of a "blue shell" being thrown into Street Fighter.

I must adjust my earlier statement. Medusa's Gaze is not equivalent to a free super, you have to first hit your opponents with the item and then hit them again to get a kill. I got caught by it in a match today and was able to escape before I got popped, so I'm even more convinced it's not a problem.

EverythingsTentative wrote:

The more I think about it the more frustrated I become because of the question you asked, why did they feel the need to add it? I've only ever seen it drop late in a match, where one kill really matters, especially if you play stock or kills.

If I could choose which items to disable, no big deal. But not having items at all, I guess is better but not ideal.

I think they added it as an experiment. The stock items in the game are, for the most part, completely useless. A few, like the Ice Rocket, are awesome for netting you a free combo, but most just knock AP out of your opponents, which you can already do with throws so there's nothing new gained. Medusa's Gaze strikes me as the devs trying out a style of item that has more impact on the game, something a bit more akin to a Smash Ball - You'll want to do everything in your power to get it yourself, or at least prevent your opponents from getting it. In many ways it actually is a bone to a Smash community, who want items and randomness to be more of a factor in the game.

DSGamer wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

The more I think about it the more frustrated I become because of the question you asked, why did they feel the need to add it? I've only ever seen it drop late in a match, where one kill really matters, especially if you play stock or kills.

If I could choose which items to disable, no big deal. But not having items at all, I guess is better but not ideal.

The developers were on Weekend Confirmed a couple of weeks ago. I really enjoyed hearing from them because they talked about approaching the game from the angle of a traditional fighter. So rather than trying to build "Smash Bros" they were trying to build a character driver brawler with mechanics closer to a Street Fighter. I appreciated, successful or not, that this was their angle. I'm pretty sure that people would be in arms about the equivalent of a "blue shell" being thrown into Street Fighter.

The reason this isn't equivalent to a blue shell in SF is because the FGC already plays with items off, 100% of the time. This is why the ruleset for Melee tournaments was always Final Destination, No Items, Stock 3, and those same rules are being used for All Stars.

I suspect some balancing will be in order for this item, as there will be for the game in general. It has yet to define any of my matches, but I'm sure it will at some point.

Kat and Emmett Graves land on Feb. 12th, according to the PlayStation Blog. Kat looks like a lot of fun.

Free for the first two weeks, so when they drop, pick them up.

So apparently Sony and Superbot are no longer in cahoots, and the studio laid off sizable chunk of its staff. I'm not sure what this tells us about the game, or its performance, but I doubt it's peaches.

Apparently the Curse of the Vita applies to studios that make cross-play games, too. Watch out, Sanzaru Games!

Blind_Evil wrote:

So apparently Sony and Superbot are no longer in cahoots, and the studio laid off sizable chunk of its staff. I'm not sure what this tells us about the game, or its performance, but I doubt it's peaches.

Apparently the Curse of the Vita applies to studios that make cross-play games, too. Watch out, Sanzaru Games!

The interesting thing about this is that they were formed almost exclusively for this game, it appears. Nihilistic didn't have a great track record, so their demise didn't shock me. I think the lessons are this.

#1 - Sony is burning 2nd party studios left and right, which probably won't help their long term chances

#2 - Most games made for the Vita are still 2nd or 1st party

#3 - Not enough 1st party games are being made or selling well enough to support the system

It's not the end of the world, but it sure makes Sony's handling of the Vita look really really tenuous. It also makes their cash flow situation look dire.

I don't think the success/failure of this game has much to do with being attached to the Vita, but more that the game doesn't do enough to really make its case. I've tried defending it in other threads, and in conversations with people, but it's just too easy to compare it to Smash Bros, and that is to its detriment. Anybody who really likes Smash Bros already has it, either on Wii, on GameCube, or is waiting for the Wii U version. If you really delve into it, this game does set itself apart with great mechanics and deep competitive play, but that only really appeals to the FGC, which is a pretty niche crowd.

I didn't want to believe it, but numbers don't lie. The game was trying to compete with Smash Bros, and it came too late to the party and brought along the wrong guests. I still enjoy it, and I'm looking forward to the DLC characters next week, but it definitely doesn't have the draw that Smash Bros did.

Yeah, it's sad to hear. Doesn't bode well for future DLC/support, and this'll likely be the end for the idea. While I don't know why it didn't perform well in a time when Sony didn't have many titles coming out, maybe it could've gone somewhere if they gave it more time and launched with PS4. That's just wishing thinking for a game I really like.

DSGamer wrote:

The interesting thing about this is that they were formed almost exclusively for this game, it appears. Nihilistic didn't have a great track record, so their demise didn't shock me. I think the lessons are this.

I was referring more to Zipper Interactive (SOCOM, MAG), SCE Liverpool (Wipeout, Colony Wars), and Bigbig Studios - all three were dismantled after releasing a Vita game for Sony. Unit 13, Wipeout 2047, and Little Deviants. Reports vary on whether Superbot will be folding or not.

Either way it's been a hell of a year or so for Sony studios. Those three, plus Lightbox Interactive (Starhawk, Warhawk), Eat Sleep Play (Twisted Metal) and Nihilistic all going into mobile development. I guess they really have a lot of faith in Suckerpunch, Naughty Dog, and Santa Monica.

Ugh. I actually forgot about Zipper and SCE Liverpool. Either way I think my overall point is valid. Sony isn't getting the 3rd party support on the Vita that they need. And they're closing down 2nd or 1st party studios as games fail. That puts a lot of their success on the backs of the aforementioned studios + Media Molecule.

My feelings almost exactly, Dyni, except I bought the full game.

ahrezmendi wrote:

I don't think the success/failure of this game has much to do with being attached to the Vita, but more that the game doesn't do enough to really make its case. I've tried defending it in other threads, and in conversations with people, but it's just too easy to compare it to Smash Bros, and that is to its detriment. Anybody who really likes Smash Bros already has it, either on Wii, on GameCube, or is waiting for the Wii U version. If you really delve into it, this game does set itself apart with great mechanics and deep competitive play, but that only really appeals to the FGC, which is a pretty niche crowd.

I think you're totally right. Playing the beta for an hour was enough to dissuade me from getting this. They went for a game in the style of Smash Bros, but they tried to differentiate themselves quite a bit in the actual mechanics.

Unfortunately, I think the ways they chose to differentiate the game did far more harm than good. I can't help but think that this game would have done much better if they just went all the way with copying Smash Bros... simple button inputs instead of combos, ring-outs, bigger stages with more environmental hazards. The special system instead of ring-outs in particular just seemed like a huge downgrade in terms of accessibility and tension, and it seemed to strongly discourage defensive play, making the gameplay options much less diverse.

Also, I had no idea that this was more of an actual fighting game until the beta. A combo system seemed completely out of whack with the style of the game, especially with 4 people in every match.

I don't regret buying the game, I've had some really good matches with my friends, enjoyed the solo campaigns on Vita (I really love the shared profile system they have), and I think that Kat will be right up my alley. It isn't the "Smash Bros Brawl with working Online" that I had hoped it would be, so I'm keeping that hope for the next Smash Bros game.

I commend Superbot for a fantastic online mode, they did one-up Smash Bros in that respect. Even when it ran into problems it was easy to rebuild a party and get back into the action. I'm sad to hear they are probably on their way out, 'cause I think they could have done a fantastic job with a PSABR 2, and the chance to smooth out the rough edges. Le sigh.

Dyni wrote:

Also, I had no idea that this was more of an actual fighting game until the beta. A combo system seemed completely out of whack with the style of the game, especially with 4 people in every match.

I wouldn't agree with that, which is why I don't agree with most of your opinions on the game. I love Smash because of its party game/arcade nature. I love All-Stars because of its mix of Smash and traditional fighting games. Getting a Super off because you've been attacking and doing combos I find to be just as satisfying as in any other action game.

I got this over the holidays and while I haven't put a ton of time in, I've been enjoying it. Comparisons to Smash are legit, and it feels like this one just didn't fire on all cylinders the way Smash does. I think there's definitely room for a competition-level Smash-style game, but given how the community responded by pushing Melee instead of PSABR (or Brawl!) for the Evo 8th game, it's clear where all the loyalty lies.

There's a reason why Superbot hired Seth Killian. I like that they showed such a high level of dedication to making the game competitive, which is in total opposition to what Sakurai wanted to do with Brawl. I will never forgive him for the Tripping mechanic, ever.

ahrezmendi wrote:

There's a reason why Superbot hired Seth Killian. I like that they showed such a high level of dedication to making the game competitive, which is in total opposition to what Sakurai wanted to do with Brawl. I will never forgive him for the Tripping mechanic, ever.

Between Seth and Clockwork I think they've got more than enough fighting game experience to make me confident that the game is as interesting as it seems to me so far. I feel like it's hobbled by the characters they could get (no Crash and two Coles is pretty absurd, not to mention Big Daddy after Bioshock took so long to come to the PS3) as well as the comparisons to Smash. I kind of wish they had kept the ring-out health system from Smash and just embraced the cloning all out.

I think that's mostly an artifact of having played 3 Smash Bros games before this one came out. It's an artifact I succumb to as well, I can't help thinking PSABR would be better with the Smash style scoring system, but the Supers actually fit the system of PSABR better. They fit the combo-friendly nature of the game.

ahrezmendi wrote:

I think that's mostly an artifact of having played 3 Smash Bros games before this one came out. It's an artifact I succumb to as well, I can't help thinking PSABR would be better with the Smash style scoring system, but the Supers actually fit the system of PSABR better. They fit the combo-friendly nature of the game.

QFT

Kat & Emmet available today! Get 'em while they're free.

I'll spend sometime with the game tonight. Up for some MP, just get a hold of me.

Any thoughts so far? I'm impressed by Kat's mobility and I've heard that folks have already found a touch of death combo for her.

Her air combo potential is off the charts. The fact that most of her Triangle abilities are not only aimable, but will auto-track by default, is pretty nuts. I haven't given her more than a cursory glance though, I'm trying to shrink my pile so time-sink games like PSABR aren't high on my list right now.

She's definitely a short or long range fighter. Her many dashes help with offense and defense, but besides her aerial work, she's hard to work with on the ground or with a group. Seems to be great addition. Emmett feels more suited to FFA with his AOE abilities. Didn't really like him in solo play, which usually tells me I won't like a character.