Nerdshame

So I was interested that the GWJ podcast this week talked about nerdshame. Maybe it's just the holidays that brings this out, but Thanksgiving made me feel very guilty to be a gamer. We hosted thanksgiving for the in-laws and I busted hump cleaning the house while the missus busted hump putting together an awesome dinner. Nevertheless, I always feel a bit judged because our home is not upper middle class. Unlike the rest of my family, I don't spend most of my free time in "useful" pursuits like gardening, having a perfect lawn, or constant home remodeling projects. I never put my gaming above my job or my family, but on the other hand I sometimes feel that maybe as a guy in my 30s I don't have time for anything beyond work, raising children and house/yardwork.

I fully recognize that my in-law problems are in the grand scheme of things not that bad ( I have a good friend whose wife's brother is a registered sex offender. Talk about awkward holidays.) I'm just wondering if my affinity for nerdist pursuits is making it hard for me to keep up with more important things.

I still deal with this from time to time, but realize that your interests, just like everyone elses, differs from person to person. Also, look at the generational differences, and look at what was considered "childish" or "vane pursuits" by other eras that is commonplace today, ad what people of the next generation are doing that makes you wonder what they're thinking.

As the digital age becomes more prevalent and games / interactive entertainment is something people grew up with with their parent's blessing or guidance in, these issues will ebb away.

Just think of how Rabbit's son is being guided.

Julian is well over any nerdshame (mame cabinet and digital pinball table, anyone?), and unless he forces it down his son's throat (which he isn't, he's simply answering that curiosity), it's unlikely that Rabbit, Jr will grow up into the world that we know it as.

You shouldn't feel shame for something that you enjoy, and you shouldn't live your life to please others or for their approval. Are their pursuits outside of games that you could be more interested in? I'm sure there are, but unless you want to seek them out, their end result (if solely for entertainment purposes) will be the same, or more likely, quite less.

I saw this video recently, and figured it might be something worth ending this post with.

I'm just wondering if my affinity for nerdist pursuits is making it hard for me to keep up with more important things.

Most of that sort of thing is status-seeking; you're trying to impress friends and family with your prosperity. But appearing prosperous is not the same as being prosperous; you will typically accumulate wealth much faster if you live in a small house and drive an old car.

If you are status-driven, then giving up some gaming time would free up home improvement time. If you aren't, then gaming isn't that expensive a hobby... with the extremely poor rates of return on home improvement right now, it should be considered purely as an expense. Judged on that basis, gaming is cheap. You don't get the status at holidays, but you also don't get the huge credit card bills for all the tools and materials.

trueheart78 makes a lot of good points. In particular, I'm struck by the sentiment that Malor chose to highlight. It appears to me, jdzappa, that you and others like you who feel "nerd shame" for gaming do so because you yourselves do not see the value in gaming activity.

Part of this has to be because it's a new and consumption-based activity. You don't make anything - you consume media. Of course, the same could be said of listening to performances, reading novels, and writing poetry; all of which were considered, at some point in human history, just as degenerate as many today consider gaming.

What makes me insanely optimistic about gaming, though, are the things hinted at in the Gamification TED speech posted above - the new generation is being raised on gaming and a gaming environment. He points out that game mechanics are ideas that are being absorbed pretty much everywhere, so much so that that's where the world seems to be headed.

He only hints at why this is: gamification works. It works because it taps into the most fundamental aspects of human thinking and turns everything into things the human brain is more capable of learning - across the board.

I forsee a future where a parent would scold their children for doing something as destructive as reading a book - because books only engage limited amounts of your brain, and they're so archaic as to be a useless skill in the workplace. "Play Battlefield at least!" cries the young mother in exasperation. "That at least teaches you real time team coordination and hand-eye coordination. Stop wasting your time on Shakespeare!"

I just turn it around on people. If they aren't gamers just mention that you understand that a lot of people don't have the right combination of sophistication, mental and physical dexterity and technical know how to be a gamer.
Also, practice your sneers and condescending looks in the mirror.

I guess I'm lucky as all my friends play games. Sure, they used to mess with me back when I was hardcore into WoW, and didn't go out on Saturday night because I was raiding. I just turned it back onto them when they would play madden or call or duty and be talking smack to 12 year olds. As for my inlaws, I just had a discussion the other day with my father in law about Company of Heroes. He has numerous times called me a gamer in a positive light commenting on the way I view things, and how that sort of thinking would make me a great candidate for working in investments. Guess I'm lucky.

Yoreel,

You're lucky that:
A: you have a close enough relationship with your in-laws to be so forthcoming and honest with them,
and
B: that they love you and find the value in what you do.

My own experience is that I'm something of an alpha gamer - I like preaching about games and I've turned many previous non-gamers into gamers (who then have to deal with their own nerd shame! Mwahahaha!).

I've turned my own mother into so much of a gamer that for her retirement, she decided to put up a LAN gaming shop - which she fills with games and other sundry applications, natch - so she's her own alpha gamer, now, I suppose.

Parents grow up so fast. I'm so proud of her.

*wipes tear*

From a slightly different angle: a lot of the current status stuff in America is really about who's most deeply in debt. This is a fundamentally bad idea, because it's competing to see who's sending the most interest to their lenders. You get status, in America, for being unwise with your wealth.

You can't, unfortunately, easily trade families, but you can at least find friends that understand this basic truth, that maintaining a low living standard now will give you a much higher living standard later.

LarryC wrote:

I've turned my own mother into so much of a gamer that for her retirement, she decided to put up a LAN gaming shop - which she fills with games and other sundry applications, natch - so she's her own alpha gamer, now, I suppose.

That is so awesome, it brought a tear to my eye!

Malor wrote:

But appearing prosperous is not the same as being prosperous; you will typically accumulate wealth much faster if you live in a small house and drive an old car.

This is a great point and I wish more of our generation understood it. When my wife and I were done with school and both gainfully employed, we still stayed in a small apartment and drove our junky college cars for another few years. It was a little bit embarrassing sometimes, as our friends and contemporaries were all buying new cars and houses, but we were able to save money fast. While they all bought small "starter" houses with the intention of moving in 5 years, we were able to get into a much nicer house with the intention of raising our children there

Note that in their rush to move from an apartment to a house, they bought at the top of the bubble and have all had to lose a substantial bit of money on their original investment to sell, whereas we bought at the bottom of the market and got the 8k from Obama. Waiting definitely served us well.

To reiterate something I've said before, a lot of the problem, from my point of view, is there's a "Nintendo" view of gaming by people of my particular demographic (41-year-old suburbanites); when we were all kids, video games meant "plumber jumping on somebody's head". Nowadays, everybody bought a Wii, and, from that perspective, it still means "plumber jumping on somebody's head". Sure, the graphics are better and all, but if you're a soccer mom walking past the living room, you're not sitting down to closely examine how much design and gameplay have progressed over the years. It still largely looks the same, so it winds up getting casually dismissed.

I'm the uber-gamer amongst people I know around my life (by and large, "people who have 4th graders at Woodland Elementary who we have dinner parties with"). There's one guy who plays some TF2 and has a bit of gamer geek in him, but that's it. I'm perfectly aware I'm viewed as being weird for my hobby, but I don't care. I'm having more fun than they are. I couldn't give the tiniest fraction of a rat's ass whether or not Chaz Bono can do the samba on Dancing with Stars or who is belting out some crappy pop song on American Idol; I'm busy firing a mind-controlling octopus cannon at machine gun wielding luchadores and calling in repeated air strikes on furries riding golf carts (IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED SAINTS ROW 3 YOU ARE A BAD HUMAN BEING) and howling with laughter. They think I'm odd for my hobby, but I have enough alternate interests and/or conversationally ability that I can still socialize with them just fine. I don't think they look down on my for it, and I'm still fundamentally the guy who coaches their kids in soccer and pushes good beer at them and makes constant jokes. Are there a lot of people around who would actually think I'm stupid for gaming? Sure, and screw them. I'm not hanging out with those people. They suck.

As an aside, I was kind of ranting about this yesterday whilst playing in Mechwarrior battlepods (a full cockpit for Mech battles, it was AWESOME) up near the U of Minnesota. On the way over, I saw a giant Skyrim billboard up on I-494 right by the MSP airport. It still shocks me to see advertising like that; when I was young (also, get offa my lawn), you gamed in the basement, and it wasn't "normal" in any way. We're in the midst of what I think are the last days when gaming is "weird" in any way, as everybody games now. Console, PC, phone, tablet, flash game, whatever. In 10 years, the only people not gaming will be the Amish.

Thanks for everyone's responses. What's strange is I work in high tech and therefore my hobby is accepted by most of my co-workers. Sure, there are still more hardcore sports fans than hardcore gamers, but we're not looked at as being any different than the guys who love the Seahawks vs the guys who love the Sounders FC (which often comes down to who are the "real" football fans).

I also went over to my friend's house for an early holiday party and realized that having small children is not conducive to having a showcase home. Their carpets were slightly stained, toys everywhere, etc. My in-laws are for the most part much older than my wife and I, and their kids are all in junior or senior high. So I'm starting to think that maybe one day I can hope for a nicer home when sippy cups aren't constantly getting spilled or where I have more energy to clean after chasing a 2-year-old around all day.

I guess my only remaining bit of nerdshame is this idea that parents aren't really supposed to have a hobby or downtime, and that any time you spend goofing off should have been spent doing something productive. Then I go and do something stupid like play Oblivion for 5 hours straight the day it came out and I feel absolutely horrible.

The idea is fundamentally untenable. Everyone needs downtime. People who don't get downtime eventually have what is called a psychotic break, and I'm quite sure it's not healthy for anyone to have one of those, parent or otherwise.

The busiest CEO in the world makes time for relaxation because it's important. Parents need to do the same. My own parents took conspicuous times off (we were foisted off on the grandparents). This is one of the reasons why it really does take a village to raise children properly.

If their carpets are only slightly stained, they're winning like Sheen.

Don't confuse Rabbit with other so called "nerds". Besides "gaming" he teaches his kid some valuable life skills -- such as carpentry and soldering required in production of that cabinet.

In contrast, many others proclaim themselves "nerds" solely on the grounds of playing videogames and watching niche TV shows.

I'd rather be spending those $60 on petunias and a bucket of driveway tar at Home Depot than at BestBuy if you know what I mean.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

Don't confuse Rabbit with other so called "nerds". Besides "gaming" he teaches his kid some valuable life skills -- such as carpentry and soldering required in production of that cabinet.

Exactly, he's nurturing his son's curiosity but not forcing it down his throat or the opposite.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

In contrast, many others proclaim themselves "nerds" solely on the grounds of playing videogames and watching niche TV shows.

Right - gaming isn't the only type of nerdiness out there. Star Trek, Comic Books, Battlestar Galactica, Dr. Who, etc. There are some nerds out there where playing video games is the least of their nerdiness.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

I'd rather be spending those $60 on petunias and a bucket of driveway tar at Home Depot than at BestBuy if you know what I mean.

I'd agree on the driveway tar, but I'm not a flower guy so :p

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

Don't confuse Rabbit with other so called "nerds". Besides "gaming" he teaches his kid some valuable life skills -- such as carpentry and soldering required in production of that cabinet.

In contrast, many others proclaim themselves "nerds" solely on the grounds of playing videogames and watching niche TV shows.

I'd rather be spending those $60 on petunias and a bucket of driveway tar at Home Depot than at BestBuy if you know what I mean.

I don't want to give the impression I'm one of those guys who does nothing around the house. Maybe my real problem is I don't particularly enjoy yardscaping. It's something I "have to do." I also don't know how much gaming is too much gaming. By comparison to my friends who are still in hardcore WOW guilds, my 10-15 hours a week is super casual. But then again, back in the Army I thought I was a "casual" drinker because I was only downing a six-pack a night while my buddies were drinking a half-rack. In other words, I have a history of underplaying my own vices.

jdzappa wrote:

I don't spend most of my free time in "useful" pursuits like gardening, having a perfect lawn, or constant home remodeling projects.

You forgot about golf.

Spoiler:

I hate golf.

This is exactly what I've been going through lately. I was playing BF3 about 4 hours a night, which included sacrificing 2 hours of sleep, and the guilt of spending so much time playing finally caught up to me. I started thinking about what I could accomplish with the 20-25 hours a week and became more and more depressed about it to the point where I just stopped playing altogether.

Before all of these feelings started cropping up, I had begun paying more attention to world news and politics quite a bit and started to get more and more interested. I soon reached a point where I decided that becoming a political activist (or at least being involved to some de gree) was more worthwhile and a better utilization of my free time than gaming. Don't get me wrong, I still love gaming and haven't given up on the hobby but I feel that at 31, it's time for me to take an extended break and focus on my new found passion.

I am lucky in that I don't need a terrible lot of sleep, and have a wife that totally gets my gaming and allows me to play in free time. I am also the handiest and outdoorsiest of all my friends, so gaming isn't my only hobby, just one of many passions.

All things in moderation, all!

I don't understand why people feel the need to apologize for being a gamer. I am the only husband out of our group of friends who can build things and work on a house (not professionally, but certainly well enough) and have gotten several comments about people being surprised by my nerdiness when it comes to games, like people think I should be wearing a pocket-protector and a retainer (I grew out of the retainer a decade ago:)).

I would just say, to the OP, that not all of your free time should be spent gaming - probably:) My habit is that on the weekend I wake up around 7 and start working on the house, cleaning inside and doing an outside project until around noon. At that point I have a good 4-5 hours of work into the house done, and it is only noon! With that much under the belt, the bride never bats an eye if I have a bloody mary and play some xbox. It also makes my house/yard look like a functioning adult lives there:) You really can have both.

SallyNasty wrote:

I am lucky in that I don't need a terrible lot of sleep, and have a wife that totally gets my gaming and allows me to play in free time. I am also the handiest and outdoorsiest of all my friends, so gaming isn't my only hobby, just one of many passions.

All things in moderation, all!

I don't understand why people feel the need to apologize for being a gamer. I am the only husband out of our group of friends who can build things and work on a house (not professionally, but certainly well enough) and have gotten several comments about people being surprised by my nerdiness when it comes to games, like people think I should be wearing a pocket-protector and a retainer (I grew out of the retainer a decade ago:)).

I would just say, to the OP, that not all of your free time should be spent gaming - probably:) My habit is that on the weekend I wake up around 7 and start working on the house, cleaning inside and doing an outside project until around noon. At that point I have a good 4-5 hours of work into the house done, and it is only noon! With that much under the belt, the bride never bats an eye if I have a bloody mary and play some xbox. It also makes my house/yard look like a functioning adult lives there:) You really can have both.

Lol - I wake up at 7 too but the 2-year-old makes it extremely tough to get a lot done. The fact my wife works most weekends compounds the problem.

That being said, maybe one day in the not-too-distant future I'll be able to actually get stuff done without my kid demanding more fruit snacks and trying to actively kill himself.

I'm lucky that I have in-laws that do not judge me on my hobby, actively ask questions (mostly while watching me play Heavy Rain last year) and even buy games for my birthday and xmas. I have, however, only recently opened up about my hobby at work among co-workers most of whom are constantly discussing their green lawns, home improvements or new xmas decorations this time of year.

93_confirmed wrote:

I soon reached a point where I decided that becoming a political activist (or at least being involved to some de gree) was more worthwhile and a better utilization of my free time than gaming. Don't get me wrong, I still love gaming and haven't given up on the hobby but I feel that at 31, it's time for me to take an extended break and focus on my new found passion.

I worked in politics right out of college and gave up gaming as if it were the worst vice in my life (with help from my wife). I have since given up the political pursuit and my blood pressure has dropped 40 points; I also enjoy gaming more than ever. That said, I wish you the best of luck with your new found passion.