SOPA / Internet Censorship Bill (HR 3261)

Countless Wounded
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93_confirmed's picture
Location: United [Police] States of America

This bill has been briefly discussed in other P&C threads but I feel it deserves it's own dedicated thread. Here are a few starting points for anyone who is unfamiliar with the it:

Open Congress (be sure to view the 'Money Trail' tab!)

Wikipedia

This bill focuses on preventing online privacy, which the government estimates costs the US over $1B annually. The premise sounds reasonable at first mention but the bill clearly opens the door for the government to regulate the Web and gives the ability to shut down websites for a variety reasons. It would also create a host of security issues and open the door for all sorts of litigation between ISPs, domain hosts, and users.

I'm curious to hear what everyone thinks about this - especially those in the web industry.

"There should be a help line that criminals could call to check out the viability of their plans. Just have them describe their plan, and then the help desk employee could explain, "No, that is a stupid plan. You will get caught immediately." -Funkenpants

Discretion is not the better part of
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Malor's picture
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This bill is a nuclear bomb detonated in downtown Silicon Valley.

Elewis17 wrote:

I endorse any suggestion by Malor to put computer components in kitchen appliances.

Very Small Tyrant
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Minarchist's picture
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93_confirmed wrote:

This bill focuses on preventing online privacy...

I would just like to preserve this typo for all time just in case you decide to change it. It may not be what you meant to type, but I think it is far more accurate than "piracy", don't you?

I like the cut of your jib, Minarchist. -- Podunk
What Minarchist said. -- Paleocon
Listen to Minarchist, for he is wise. -- Jonman

Biggest Darryl
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Bonus_Eruptus's picture
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Minarchist wrote:
93_confirmed wrote:

This bill focuses on preventing online privacy...

I would just like to preserve this typo for all time just in case you decide to change it. It may not be what you meant to type, but I think it is far more accurate than "piracy", don't you?

I too, would like to preserve it, for posterity.

m0nk3yboy:To quote a McElroy, he Supermaned the sh*t out of me on the handlebars. He bleeped the bleep, out of my bleep, bleep bleep, bleep, bleep. That man has STAMINA!
Steam | XBL

Countless Wounded
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My apologies for the typo; thats a Freudian slip. I'll keep it there and assume everyone knows it was piracy.

"There should be a help line that criminals could call to check out the viability of their plans. Just have them describe their plan, and then the help desk employee could explain, "No, that is a stupid plan. You will get caught immediately." -Funkenpants

Bilge Cat
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Farscry's picture
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93_confirmed wrote:
My apologies for the typo; thats a Freudian slip. I'll keep it there and assume everyone knows it was piracy.

Actually, when I first read it, I thought it was a deliberate typo. I liked it better that way. Ah well.

"We are at our best when we work together. We are at our worst when we expend valuable and finite energy and resources destroying one another." - Paleocon, regarding humanity.

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fangblackbone's picture
Location: bay area

We going to have another war? The War on Piracy?

Unlawful streaming of trademarked content a FELONY?

Is bootlegging a felony?

Being fangoriously devoured by a gelatinous monster.

Johnny Dangerouslier
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fangblackbone wrote:
We going to have another war? The War on Piracy?

Unlawful streaming of trademarked content a FELONY?

Is bootlegging a felony?

Stealing trade secrets is already a 10 year sentence.

Not that I agree with it. Just saying. I think it's a bit disgusting that stealing the recipe for Coca-Cola carries a greater penalty than rape or manslaughter. In Federal prison, no less.

Rules cannot trump power -- The Godfather Doctrine

Discretion is not the better part of
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Malor's picture
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Well, obviously, if you hurt one of the superior people, our blessed corporations, your punishment should be worse than if you hurt a mere serf.

Sheesh.

Elewis17 wrote:

I endorse any suggestion by Malor to put computer components in kitchen appliances.

Puttin' on the foil, Coach!
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Mixolyde's picture
Location: DC Metro, Orange Line, staring at my DS.

I've already written letters and made phone calls to all of my congress critters regarding both of these bills. It's bad enough that they want to write an internet censorship bill to stop online piracy. Yes, that's bad. A $2500 fine for having a copyrighted song playing the background of a youtube video of your kid's birthday party is stupid. I think most everyone on this forum would agree that that is bad. Great.

But, and this is a huge but, even if you don't agree that it's bad and you think it's ok for the gov't to black list web sites without a warrant with no legal recourse, the worst part is that IT WON'T f*ckING WORK! This is the internet we're talking about, a system that is designed to be so adaptable to things breaking as to survive a nuclear holocaust. All it will do is fracture the internet into multiple internets with tons of new and interesting DNS servers out there. Making for more pain for end users and more opportunities for criminals to access traffic. It's nuts to think you can just flip a switch and computers connected to the internet will somehow magically never be able to connect to the internet again and restart publishing data. It's complete and total magical thinking bull crap.

YOU CAN'T STOP THE SIGNAL! You can only force people to move to a new house and start broadcasting again.

Steam | Guild Leader of GWJ on Realm of the Mad God
Rezzy wrote:

LarryC wrote:
You guys sure you aren't already living in a theocracy?

Less and less every year.

Discretion is not the better part of
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Malor's picture
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They're already coming up with systems that would entirely defeat any DNS- or IP-based blacklisting, by using global lookup tables to detect tampering with SSL certificates, and using Tor to route around DNS tampering or IP blocking. All the US will accomplish by doing this is some major disruption for a year or two, with the Internet then reforming to keep itself forever out of the control of the US authorities.

They can have some limited impact on things now -- if they grab for this much power, they'll lose almost all of it.

Elewis17 wrote:

I endorse any suggestion by Malor to put computer components in kitchen appliances.

Because Good is Dumb
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Mixolyde wrote:
A $2500 fine for having a copyrighted song playing the background of a youtube video of your kid's birthday party is stupid.

Sadly you could get that for merely singing "Happy Birthday" since it's a copyrighted song.

Yonder wrote:

At this point striking the Pope once with a sword is a completely reasonable action.

Goin' Commando
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Edwin's picture
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Heeding the call
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krev82's picture

Quote:
"Unfortunately, the theft of America's IP costs the U.S. economy more than $100 billion annually and results in the loss of thousands of American jobs."

Even if we grant the fallacious assumption that 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale this number still seems pretty inflated. The statement is a great way to play on people's fears in the current economic/job situation and sneak this through.

The Fritos are antiquated
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krev82 wrote:
Quote:
"Unfortunately, the theft of America's IP costs the U.S. economy more than $100 billion annually and results in the loss of thousands of American jobs."

Even if we grant the fallacious assumption that 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale this number still seems pretty inflated. The statement is a great way to play on people's fears in the current economic/job situation and sneak this through.

I'm getting really tired of people using job loss as a response to everything.

Steam

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Edwin's picture
Location: Miami, FL Seattle, WA

But it's a legit reason. We are losing jobs here because of over reaching laws.

Quote:
Politico has a piece on how the Patriot Act is interfering with U.S. firms trying to do business overseas in the area of cloud computing. Here's a quote: 'The Sept. 11-era law was supposed to help the intelligence community gather data on suspected terrorists. But competitors overseas are using it as a way to discourage foreign countries from signing on with U.S. cloud computing providers like Google and Microsoft: Put your data on a U.S.-based cloud, they warn, and you may just put it in the hands of the U.S. government.

Discretion is not the better part of
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Malor's picture
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Yeah, you'd have to be be pretty much insane to put government data on a US cloud. For that matter, putting it on a cloud in general is a bad idea. Physical access trumps all other security, and governments are better at obtaining unauthorized physical access than just about anyone.

If security is actually important to you, then the machines holding the data must absolutely be under your physical control.

Elewis17 wrote:

I endorse any suggestion by Malor to put computer components in kitchen appliances.

Johnny Dangerouslier
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GioClark's picture
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Malor wrote:

If security is actually important to you, then the machines holding the data must absolutely be under your physical control.

This.

Because this.

Please note that the Feds cleaned out the co-lo in this raid, confiscating all housed hardware, because of a complaint from AT&T and Version about unpaid bills by some customers of the facility. This wasn't even a 'cloud' per se. Just a co-location facility where small operations who couldn't afford their own datacenter rented space.

If I possess your hardware, your data is mine.

Rules cannot trump power -- The Godfather Doctrine

*gasp*
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Scratched's picture
Location: UK

I'm reminded of the Pirate Bay server raids, so you can say being in another country under totally separate jurisdiction may not be an obstacle.

C for Vendetta

Eventually, supporters of advanced distribution procedures will have to broadcast their pirate signals in mobile server platforms from underground, with their hackers and sysads standing by to protect their datastreams. One can only hope that they have the foresight not to line the entire exterior of their craft with giant neon highlights.

*gasp*
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Scratched's picture
Location: UK

Via slashdot - Feds Seize Domain Names of Korean Movie Portals

It really makes me wonder
a) How long before 'survival of the fittest' kicks in and there's another major shift in how the (inevitable) piracy happens that's out of their reach
b) How long before there's international push-back through official channels.

Discretion is not the better part of
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Malor's picture
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@sschillace, on Twitter, wrote:
Under SOPA, you could get 5 years for uploading a Michael Jackson song, one year more than the doctor who killed him.

Elewis17 wrote:

I endorse any suggestion by Malor to put computer components in kitchen appliances.

Countless Wounded
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93_confirmed's picture
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Malor wrote:
@sschillace, on Twitter, wrote:
Under SOPA, you could get 5 years for uploading a Michael Jackson song, one year more than the doctor who killed him.

Unreal! 5 years for a f'ing song? More time than some violent criminals would receive?

"There should be a help line that criminals could call to check out the viability of their plans. Just have them describe their plan, and then the help desk employee could explain, "No, that is a stupid plan. You will get caught immediately." -Funkenpants

C for Vendetta

What adds insult to injury is that Micheal Jackson isn't even alive anymore to benefit from sales of his work, so you can't say that getting copies of his song is hurting him - the guy's dead, for god's sake. This comparison underlines who controls the law and where their interests lie.

Thumbs Up ... ish
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LarryC wrote:
What adds insult to injury is that Micheal Jackson isn't even alive anymore to benefit from sales of his work, so you can't say that getting copies of his song is hurting him - the guy's dead, for god's sake. This comparison underlines who controls the law and where their interests lie.

But his estate still gets money. Most of the time the estate holders are more ruthless than actual artists.

PSN - DSGamerGWJ

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krev82's picture

LarryC wrote:
What adds insult to injury is that Micheal Jackson isn't even alive anymore to benefit from sales of his work, so you can't say that getting copies of his song is hurting him - the guy's dead, for god's sake. This comparison underlines who controls the law and where their interests lie.

*edit: removed Tanhausered bits*

(Cross-thread thought, I'll add it here for now but I'm not meaning to derail.)
Also piracy supposedly cost $100 billion a year and the response is to censor and monitor the entire internet. Investment bankers and related parties cost the nation however many trillion dollars in a rather short time span, hundreds of thousands of jobs, etc.. and the response is to bail them out. I'm not suggesting they should bail out record companies, just noting what strikes me as an odd hypocrisy.

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Yay! The great firewall of the USA

Gaming hipster : I remember games from before you were born.
Rule 34 or it didn't happen.

C for Vendetta

DSGamer:

Quote:

But his estate still gets money. Most of the time the estate holders are more ruthless than actual artists.

Precisely. Current copyright laws extend far beyond just compensation for artists and delve into concepts of copyrights as inherited birthrights - which in many cases runs counter to the stated purpose of copyright to begin with. It has more to do with copyright owners wanting to make more money and less to do with just compensation.

By the same argument, patients I treat should continue to pay my children until well past my death. I don't charge such silly fees.

krev82:

It's not that odd if you just follow the money. Your society has substituted banks and copyright owners for landowners, but the basic essence is similar - they own you and you are their serfs. They get to write laws that benefit them, and you - well you get the bread and circuses.

Discretion is not the better part of
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Malor's picture
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Michael Barclay over on TechDirt expanded on the idea in that tweet:

Quote:
SOPA makes it a felony to upload a video of someone singing a copyrighted song with up to 5 years in prison. Dr. Conrad Murray was convicted of manslaughter for killing Michael Jackson and only got a 4 year maximum sentence.

So it's a bigger crime to sing one of Michael Jackson's songs than it is to kill him.

Elewis17 wrote:

I endorse any suggestion by Malor to put computer components in kitchen appliances.

Trust Me, I'm A Goodjer
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absurddoctor's picture
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GioClark wrote:
Malor wrote:

If security is actually important to you, then the machines holding the data must absolutely be under your physical control.

This.

Because this.

Please note that the Feds cleaned out the co-lo in this raid, confiscating all housed hardware, because of a complaint from AT&T and Version about unpaid bills by some customers of the facility. This wasn't even a 'cloud' per se. Just a co-location facility where small operations who couldn't afford their own datacenter rented space.

If I possess your hardware, your data is mine.

Off topic, but I instantly recognized the picture in that article as coming from one of my company's data center's. Though, we were definitely not the subject of the article itself.

Take two of deez nutz and call me.

Goin' Commando
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Edwin's picture
Location: Miami, FL Seattle, WA

Quote:
bonch writes "Less than 12 hours after the U.S. launched a virtual embassy for Iran, the Iranian government blocked access to the website, directing visitors to a government page proclaiming the site illegal. The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.'"

I thought the irony was too much not to post. Especially considering CDA, COPA, DMCA, COPPA, CIPA, COICA, DOPA and now SOPA.