FF2011: Official GWJFFLK-specific discussion thread

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This thread is specifically for signup to and discussion about the GWJFFLK, the one and only Fantasy Football Keeper League of Gamers with Jobs. For general fantasy football talk, please visit the catch-all thread. For the re-draft leagues, go here.

The GWJFFLK follows, as closely as possible, the rules of the World Championship of Online Fantasy Football. As much as the hosting website allows, we will conform to the official GWJFFL rules.

Significant highlights include:

Roster Requirements: Maximum of 20 players.

Lineups Requirements:
Starting lineups will consist of
1 QB
2 RB
3 WR
1 TE
1 Flex player (a RB or WR, or TE)
1 PK
1 Team Defense/Special team

Point Calculations: Team scoring will be carried out to the hundredth (e.g. a team may score 94.75 points).

Free Agent Acquisitions/Blind Bidding: The free agent system will be a “blind bidding” process. Each team will start with $100 free agent “dollars” for the season, and will be permitted to bid for free agents on a weekly basis. No team will be informed of any other team’s free agent bids until after the winning bids have been awarded. A team owner will no longer be able to bid on free agents once their season long waiver wire cap of $100 has been reached.

For detailed scoring information and additional information regarding the free agent acquisition process (including examples), refer to the rules document.

[size=16]The GWJFFLK differs from the other GWJFFL leagues in a few, but significant, ways.[/size]

1. Registration: Since this is a keeper league, a consistent ownership base year-over-year is obviously one of the primary goals. Unfortunately, people sometimes have to leave for various reasons. As such, we welcome the expression of interest by potential new owners. Should any slots become available, the list of candidates will be presented to the returning owners who will "vote" on said candidates using a rank-order system. (Think college football ranking systems.) The candidates with the most points will be invited to join the league. The number of invitations obviously corresponds with the number of slots that are available. New owners will be offered, in the descending points order, their choice of rosters from the ones that were abdicated. If you are a new owner who desires to join the GWJFFLK, post in this thread telling us... well, anything you think will help your chances with our panel.

If you're a returning owner, simply post here to re-claim your team.

Registration will close at 23:59 CDT on Sunday, 8/14.

2. Draft: Unlike the other leagues, the GWJFFLK uses an auction draft system. The initial budget is $200. Additional information will be provided upon request.

3. Keepers: Only players that were on the roster at the end of the season are eligible to be kept. Since the GWJFFLK uses a dollar-based draft system as well as a dollar-based free agent acquisition system, the value of keepers are also determined by assigning a dollar value to them. Keeping players on the roster from the previous year will deduct from the initial draft budget for the current year. There is no limit to the number of keepers one team can keep as long as enough budget remains to fill out the rest of your roster at the draft. This means that you must have at least one dollar for each open slot on your roster.

The formula for determining the keeper value of a player is as follows: Acquisition cost + $0.25 for every week the player did not play in a game (on any GWJFFLK roster) the previous season + $1.00 for every GWJFFLK game the player played. The total is rounded up to the nearest whole dollar. Since we play a 16-week season, the minimum inflation amount is $4 for a player who did not play a GWJFFLK game all season. Acquisition cost is defined as follows.

  • For any player acquired via the draft that remained on a roster for the entire season (this includes players that were drafted and traded without ever being cut), the base value is their draft price
  • For any player that was drafted and subsequently cut, the base value is the average of their initial draft price and the last price paid for the player through the blind bidding free agent acquisition process.
  • For any player that went undrafted, the base value is simply the the free agent bid amount.

Although not necessary in the initial post to re-claim your team, once you've declared your intent, returning owners please be sure to post which players you intend to keep and their keeper value according to your calculations based on the information above. Everyone else, please help out by checking their math.

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Links

* The official GWJFFL rules (To be followed as much as the league website allows.)
* Registration log and team list (Still has 2010 data in it. Will be updated shortly.)

Placeholder: I'm back.

In like sin.

Will look over my players and costs and get back to you.

I would like to express my interest in joining the league should an opening appear. As many of you know, I am an owner of a GWJFFL team. I am a dedicated and active owner whose team is consistently a contender. I did not join the league last year because of personal schedule constraints that I knew would prevent me from properly managing another team. Those constraints no longer exist. I would greatly appreciate being considered for league membership. Thank you.

I am returning to claim my full of sh*t team

I'm back, baby!

Just out of curiosity, where did this come from?

B. For any player that was drafted and subsequently cut, the base value is the average of their initial draft price and the last price paid for the player through the blind bidding free agent acquisition process.

I'm not against it, I just don't remember the discussion. I could see how it helps guys cut due to injury (and roster space) from being undervalued.

It's been a while, I should go back and look at the roster moves made at year end.

Edit: QUESTION NUMBAH 2

Is there a deadline for determining who will be kept on your team? I suppose this comes down to a much more specific question... can you decide mid-draft to open up a player to drafting/free agency to free up the money you had set aside to keep him? I like the whole 'cap room' feel of this, but it is susceptible to shenanigans like releasing a high value player at the end of the draft when no one has money left. It would make sense if the keepers were locked in at the start of the draft, both to prevent foul play and purely for simplicity and flow during the draft.

Jolly Bill wrote:

Just out of curiosity, where did this come from?

B. For any player that was drafted and subsequently cut, the base value is the average of their initial draft price and the last price paid for the player through the blind bidding free agent acquisition process.

I'm not against it, I just don't remember the discussion. I could see how it helps guys cut due to injury (and roster space) from being undervalued.

From your awesome commissioner, of course. And it looks like you understand exactly why I put it in, too. Good job!

As for the discussion, I'm willing to have it, of course, and make modifications for next year, but it's locked in for this season. Thanks.

Sounds good!

QUESTION NUMBAH 3 (my brain really is in football overload mode)

Are trades allowed between teams before the draft for keepers? I could see why free agent pickups are obviously not allowed, and I'm going to go ahead and assume no on trading... but this IS a keeper league, so who knows.

By the way, thank you for your very clear wording! I had about 4 more questions that were easily answered by more carefully reading the OP.

Jolly Bill wrote:

Are trades allowed between teams before the draft for keepers? I could see why free agent pickups are obviously not allowed, and I'm going to go ahead and assume no on trading... but this IS a keeper league, so who knows.

My initial thought is, "With the same veto rules as during the regular season (48 hour veto window, 5 'no' votes kill the trade), I've got no problem with it," but I'll open that one up to the owners. I wouldn't allow any trades before the registration deadline anyway, so we've got time to discuss it.

In, and sad about new random rule. Also, a question on new random rule. Do games played while on a roster before said player was cut count as $1 or $.25 or $0, or do only games played after they were picked up count?

Grumpicus wrote:
ukickmydog wrote:

In, and sad about new random rule.

Well like I said, I'm going to go with it for this year but, as I also said, I'm willing to discuss it for subsequent seasons... but you're going to have to give me more than "I'm sad."

Sad because I tried to have this question answered during season last year and only feedback I got was that it would be based on the pickup price, nothing to do with the drafted price. http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/5...

If a spot opens up, I would love to join the league. I have not participated in any of the other GWJ leagues here, mostly because I didn't know they existed until last year, AND I've never been a huge fan of redraft leagues, as I love the challenge of putting together a potential "dynasty" team. Nothing beats the feeling of taking an unknown player and watching him bust out win a championship for you. (I still remember taking a $1 Barry Foster just before his nearly 1700 yard breakout year)

I also used to run my own keeper league for years, which was also an auction-based league with a $200 budget. If fell apart last year due to people moving, loss of football interest by others, etc etc, and I'm looking to get in a keeper league that's going to last. Our keeper rules were simple: sign a player at auction, you had the opportunity to keep that player for an additional 2 years at 15% inflation per year. Sign a player after the auction, they were not eligible to be kept at the end of the year. We also had a rookie draft of 2 rounds after the first year, $2 for 1st round picks, $1 for 2nd round picks, who could be kept for a maximum of 3 years as well. After the 3rd year was up, the player went back into the auction pool, but as "restricted", meaning that they were still auctioned off, but after the bidding was complete, the original drafting team had the option to keep the player for 10% less salary then the final bidding price. It was a 12 team league, so in order to try and discourage a bad team from tanking at the end of the season, I divided up the teams into 3 groups, the top 4 teams, middle 4 teams, bottom 4 teams, and held a lottery inside each group for draft position.

tldr version: Please consider me for an open spot, I'm cute, cuddly, and need a home.

Grumpicus wrote:

Are we talking about the same random rule? I thought you were referring to the same one that Jolly Bill asked about (which I did add with no league-wide discussion) but all the others were discussed last season. Anyway, it doesn't matter if a player was owned or not, if he didn't play that week, that week counts for $.25.

Another way to calculate would be to add up all the weeks a player started (for any GWJFFLK team) and then add ($.25 x (16 - numgamesplayed)).

This answers my question, thanks. I have another question though :). What kind of rounding are we using? If my keepers add up to say $40.25, does it count as $40 for the draft or $41?

ukickmydog wrote:

Sad because I tried to have this question answered during season last year and only feedback I got was that it would be based on the pickup price, nothing to do with the drafted price. http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/50885?page=10#comment-1663495

Hmm, you present compelling evidence. Very well; if there's overwhelming outcry against this rule, I'm willing to suspend or modify it (with apologies to everyone who will have to recalculate their keepers). Like the "pre-season trades" question, I'll leave the discussion open until 8/14.

Personally, the scenario that bothers me would be a mid-level player - say one that was drafted for around $20 last season and would probably be drafted for about that much this season - that got injured, was dropped (because he's not the sort of stud that you spend your IR slot on), and subsequently picked up at the end of the season for $0 would be kept for somewhere in the neighborhood of $5 (injured in week 1) or $6 (injured in week 2). If the player was worth $20 last season and is worth $20 this season, I don't think $15 or $16 is too much to ask for him.

As I said, though, due to your excellent point that it was specifically brought up last year, I'm willing to reconsider. Perhaps a compromise might be the average of the free agent price and 1/2 draft price.

ukickmydog wrote:

What kind of rounding are we using? If my keepers add up to say $40.25, does it count as $40 for the draft or $41?

The answer to your specific question is $41.

In the initial post, I wrote:

The total is rounded up to the nearest whole dollar.

Please feel free to ask all the questions you like. If you have them, someone else probably does, too. This is, after all, the "pre-season discussion thread" and I like discussion.

Whoops!

Jolly Bill wrote:

Edit: QUESTION NUMBAH 2

Is there a deadline for determining who will be kept on your team? I suppose this comes down to a much more specific question... can you decide mid-draft to open up a player to drafting/free agency to free up the money you had set aside to keep him? I like the whole 'cap room' feel of this, but it is susceptible to shenanigans like releasing a high value player at the end of the draft when no one has money left. It would make sense if the keepers were locked in at the start of the draft, both to prevent foul play and purely for simplicity and flow during the draft.

Missed your ninja edit. I think that the keepers should be locked in before the draft. I'll probably set a deadline of a day or two before the draft to make sure that all of our ducks are in a row going in.

Copied from my PMs because, as I said to owner, others might have the same questions.

My inbox wrote:
Just trying to work out my own keeper values so I can plan ahead... having trouble determining values from some of the free agent pickups. If FleaFlicker doesn't list a price next to an added players name in the transaction history, does that assume they were picked up for $0? Would that make the base price $0?

Thanks for putting up with my questions!

No worries. If you have these questions, it's very likely that others do to.

Yes.

Hope you don't mind.

.

ukickmydog wrote:

In, and sad about new random rule.

Well like I said, I'm going to go with it for this year but, as I also said, I'm willing to discuss it for subsequent seasons... but you're going to have to give me more than "I'm sad." As a matter of fact, the scenario described in Jolly Bill's question (see how it all ties together? ) was a large part of the inspiration for this "random" rule.

ukickmydog wrote:

Edit: Also, a question on new random rule. Do games played while on a roster before said player was cut count as $1 or $.25 or $0, or do only games played after they were picked up count?

Are we talking about the same random rule? I thought you were referring to the same one that Jolly Bill asked about (which I did add with no league-wide discussion) but all the others were discussed last season. Anyway, it doesn't matter if a player was owned or not, if he didn't play that week, that week counts for $.25.

Another way to calculate would be to add up all the weeks a player started (for any GWJFFLK team) and then add ($.25 x (16 - numgamesplayed)).

Grumpicus wrote:
ukickmydog wrote:

What kind of rounding are we using? If my keepers add up to say $40.25, does it count as $40 for the draft or $41?

The answer to your specific question is $41.

In the initial post, I wrote:

The total is rounded up to the nearest whole dollar.

Please feel free to ask all the questions you like. If you have them, someone else probably does, too. This is, after all, the "pre-season discussion thread" and I like discussion. ;)

Sorry, I thought it was odd to omit that, looks like I just over read it.

I'm in.

I was wondering about what the cap would be for this year? Last year the draft cap was at 200, if I wanted to keep my 7 best players I'm looking at a value of over 200 for all of them. Are we raising the cap?

I'm back this year.

Edit: question was answered.

ukickmydog wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:
ukickmydog wrote:

In, and sad about new random rule.

Well like I said, I'm going to go with it for this year but, as I also said, I'm willing to discuss it for subsequent seasons... but you're going to have to give me more than "I'm sad."

Sad because I tried to have this question answered during season last year and only feedback I got was that it would be based on the pickup price, nothing to do with the drafted price. http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/5...

I think we have to do SOMETHING to include last year's draft price in the formula, or we will have some truly ridiculous keepers. I got Dallas Clark off the waiver wire last year for $1, and I'm sure there were some similarly underpriced acquisitions. Maybe we can work up the values for last year's waiver wire pickups using a few different scenarios and see what looks best out of the options that Grump has proposed?

Elliottx wrote:

I'm in.

I was wondering about what the cap would be for this year? Last year the draft cap was at 200, if I wanted to keep my 7 best players I'm looking at a value of over 200 for all of them. Are we raising the cap?

Cap should still be $200. If a player's overpriced, out they go :).

Landshrk83 wrote:

I think we have to do SOMETHING to include last year's draft price in the formula, or we will have some truly ridiculous keepers. I got Dallas Clark off the waiver wire last year for $1, and I'm sure there were some similarly underpriced acquisitions. Maybe we can work up the values for last year's waiver wire pickups using a few different scenarios and see what looks best out of the options that Grump has proposed?

Everyone else had a chance to get him and didn't think it was worth holding a spot on their roster for the season as well as the inflation price. With inflation, you'll still be paying a total of $9.50 ($10) (6 weeks active roster, 10 weeks inactive, plus $1 bid) for Clark this year. I think that combined with the 8 weeks you held him on a roster spot last year is more than fair.

I'm back. I think it's safe to say I won't be keeping Ray Rice this year.

In the NFL, players who are cut are subject to waivers, and teams who claim a guy on waivers assumes the player's original contract. When a player passes through waivers, he becomes a free agent and can be signed to a fresh new contract, no strings tying the new team to the old deal.

If we were doing it NFL style, players who are claimed (won on Thursday waivers) would be beholden to their draft value, while players who were added (picked up on post-waivers first-come, first-serve) would be free and clear of their original draft value (resetting to $1 base value, plus the proper inflation).

*Legion* wrote:

In the NFL, players who are cut are subject to waivers, and teams who claim a guy on waivers assumes the player's original contract. When a player passes through waivers, he becomes a free agent and can be signed to a fresh new contract, no strings tying the new team to the old deal.

If we were doing it NFL style, players who are claimed (won on Thursday waivers) would be beholden to their draft value, while players who were added (picked up on post-waivers first-come, first-serve) would be free and clear of their original draft value (resetting to $1 base value, plus the proper inflation).

I like this, and I think Fleaflicker even makes the distinction!

Jolly Bill wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

In the NFL, players who are cut are subject to waivers, and teams who claim a guy on waivers assumes the player's original contract. When a player passes through waivers, he becomes a free agent and can be signed to a fresh new contract, no strings tying the new team to the old deal.

If we were doing it NFL style, players who are claimed (won on Thursday waivers) would be beholden to their draft value, while players who were added (picked up on post-waivers first-come, first-serve) would be free and clear of their original draft value (resetting to $1 base value, plus the proper inflation).

I like this, and I think Fleaflicker even makes the distinction!

Sounds good in theory, but then it just comes down to the first person to get on at 12:01am or whenever waivers ends to pick up injured players for the following year. Claiming them off waivers with a budget gives everyone an equal shot if they are looking to hold a player for the next year.

ukickmydog wrote:
Jolly Bill wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

In the NFL, players who are cut are subject to waivers, and teams who claim a guy on waivers assumes the player's original contract. When a player passes through waivers, he becomes a free agent and can be signed to a fresh new contract, no strings tying the new team to the old deal.

If we were doing it NFL style, players who are claimed (won on Thursday waivers) would be beholden to their draft value, while players who were added (picked up on post-waivers first-come, first-serve) would be free and clear of their original draft value (resetting to $1 base value, plus the proper inflation).

I like this, and I think Fleaflicker even makes the distinction!

Sounds good in theory, but then it just comes down to the first person to get on at 12:01am or whenever waivers ends to pick up injured players for the following year. Claiming them off waivers with a budget gives everyone an equal shot if they are looking to hold a player for the next year.

Yeah, I don't like the post-claim vs add rule for the reasons that ukickmydog states. For the sake of fairness, I don't think there should be a distinction between claimed vs added (except that added players have a salary of 0 for the current year).

Just so you guys know, I'm not ignoring you. As a matter of fact, I'm following the thread intently. Aside from the fact that I should be working, I am actively refraining from posting my two cents because a post from the commissioner seems to have such an air of official-ness (not a real word, does any one have a good synonym?) even when I'm just putting in my two cents.

That being said...

Landshrk83 wrote:

I think we have to do SOMETHING to include last year's draft price in the formula, or we will have some truly ridiculous keepers. I got Dallas Clark off the waiver wire last year for $1, and I'm sure there were some similarly underpriced acquisitions. Maybe we can work up the values for last year's waiver wire pickups using a few different scenarios and see what looks best out of the options that Grump has proposed?

This.

f*ck man, I don't know. I need convincing.

Spoiler:

convincing = prostitutes

Grumpicus wrote:

Just so you guys know, I'm not ignoring you. As a matter of fact, I'm following the thread intently. Aside from the fact that I should be working, I am actively refraining from posting my two cents because a post from the commissioner seems to have such an air of official-ness (not a real word, does any one have a good synonym?) even when I'm just putting in my two cents.

That being said...

Landshrk83 wrote:

I think we have to do SOMETHING to include last year's draft price in the formula, or we will have some truly ridiculous keepers. I got Dallas Clark off the waiver wire last year for $1, and I'm sure there were some similarly underpriced acquisitions. Maybe we can work up the values for last year's waiver wire pickups using a few different scenarios and see what looks best out of the options that Grump has proposed?

This.

How is 8 weeks of taking up a spot on your roster plus paying $10 the following year for a tight end ridiculous?

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