Computer for someone who has never owned one- Mac or PC? Desktop or laptop?
A co worker approached me because I'm the most tech savvy person at our job*, about what kind of computer he should get. He is in his 50s, has never learned to type, and has never owned anything more complicated than a VCR and a regular cell phone. (He actually said for a while that he was holding out for when you can just talk to the computer and it will do what you want, but he caved.) I know he wants to keep the cost relatively low, but he didn't actually give me a price point.
Although I am a PC user, mostly for gaming, I wonder if I should tell him to get a Mac. I know people that use them and swear by their user friendliness, and it seems like they have less problems with viruses and software issues. I asked a friend who uses PC, Mac, and Linux, and her suggestion was for a low end but brand new Mac laptop.
Any suggestions from the goodjer masses?
*Shut up, you. Stop laughing.
I'd recommend a Mac, and a Mac Mini at that.
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Yeah, Mac Mini or maybe a Mac laptop depending on his budget.
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Mystic Violet wrote:
What's he going to be doing on it?
I've been a PC user most of my life, but when I switched to having a laptop as a primary machine, I went Mac. After having installed Windows 7 and poking around it a bit, I will say it's improved in usability a bunch but then there's things like this:
I started using PCs back in the DOS only days and while that was a bit frustrating, I think i'd rather have to deal with command prompt than figure out where the hell the option is to format a new drive in that mess of a control panel like the one above. Getting a Windows machine of any kind will always be cheaper at this point, but when something breaks (and with a noob, it will) he'll just throw up his hands and shell out a bunch of money for tech support that really shouldn't be needed. Using OSX isn't all roses of course, but for basic users, it's simple, it's fast, and it's pretty straight forward. Power is there if needed, but he most likely won't.
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OK, when have you ever formatted drives from the Control Panel?
You can still use "format" from the command line, or be more current and use the Disk Management snap-in in to the Management Console.
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Mac Mini is a great suggestion.
Which is why shells and terminal emulators are the most important pieces of software on UNIX systems. Many things will always be considerably more efficient from a command line interface than a fat GUI.
PowerShell is no BASH but it's definitely something to have handy when you're in Windowsland.
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Isn't the default windows control panel something like this:
and has been heading down that road since Windows ME? (sorry for bringing that up). Any reasonably powerful OS will have scary bits if you go digging for them.
Now, I can't claim to have used a mac recently, as in, I have minimal experience with osx, but I think for the "I just want to browse the net" user with a few brain cells and motivated to use them, I think some are overstating how 'bad' windows is. Seriously, in both you have icons you can click to run things. If you're going to go for a point by point comparison of both OSes (and I suppose the system as a whole) from a newbie perspective, we could be here all day. They've got to learn something.
As a person who prefers Windows to anything Apple could offer, for a user that needs a system that will likely need maintenance at some point, throwing them into a Mac is probably the best solution. No long-term degradation, no blue screens of death (even though they may not be evidence of serious problems, it helps churn the FUD), etc.
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Yes, that was a very biased setup of control panel. You can probably still make Win 7 look like W2K as well if you really want to, but that's not how most of us run it.
I don't think Win 7 or even Vista degraded like XP and prior did, especially if you aren't always installing a bunch of crap. Nowhere close.
And I can't remember ever having a BSoD on Win 7 (on multiple boxes running since Beta days). And the ones I had on Vista were hardware related.
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What about just getting an iPad/Android Tablet? It'll cover most of their needs, and have even more security than a desktop box/laptop.
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I think I second that. My mother, who has been using computers for years without ever becoming particularly savvy about or comfortable with them, loves her iPad. Windows 7 has caught most of the way up to OS X in terms of user-friendliness, but iOS is another order of intuitive.
The OP is asking to keep it low-cost, and since you even need a computer to own an iPad, I think you can strike that from the options. Macs tend to be more user friendly for newer users than pcs. While I agree a pc would potentially be a solid option, why take the risk? I've had Win7 bog down on me,and have seen my share of bsods as an IT Admin.
A mac mini is still the best option, unless they're wanting to do pc specific things.
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Yeah, you need to talk to him about what he actually wants to do with the machine. He may have specific software in mind. If it's Windows-only, you can still run it on the Mac with VMWare or Parallels, but it's awkward, and he ends up having to, in essence, manage two computers in one. He gets all the pain of Windows, OS X, and virtualization, all in one machine. Since he's not already fairly good with computers, I think that's a pretty bad way to handle it.
If he does need Windows, I'd just point him at a decent laptop, maybe from Lenovo, and try to get it set up properly. Suggest to him to have you check out any software he's interested in -- my mother had a bad habit of just installing anything that sounded vaguely cool, and her Windows machines were always a mess, full of viruses and trojans.
If it'll work for him, I think a Mac would be a much better option. Fewer (no?) viruses, hardly any malware, very little required maintenance. Most Apple stores offer classes, which is a very useful thing for a total noob.
A Mini plus a monitor and keyboard will be a very nice setup, and not too expensive. An iMac or a laptop might be more convenient, but would cost a lot more. The laptops are expensive but very well-engineered. I'm not too happy with most iMacs.... they're very, very expensive for what you get, and the engineering is nothing like the laptops.
Elewis17 wrote:
Depending on what he wants to do, i'd go the third route and get a cheap(ish) linux-based notebook... maybe Atom based?
If all's he wants to do is look at photos, browse the web and whatnot, those things are simple and probably less targeted by various malwares and such.
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I would go iMac of laptop over mac mini. The cost is higher but an iMac just needs to be plugged in. The mac mini needs to have a display attached and you need a cord for that as well. It's simpler to just plug in an iMac.
One thing about a windows machine is that other people will be familiar with it so support is easier to find. I think OS X is marginally easier to use but much less likely to get a virus/spyware. There are viruses and spyware for OS X but it is far less prevalent than on Windows. That is where the real win for Apple is over Windows.
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Wow, great suggestions, thanks.
This is kind of what I'm afraid of.
A lot of suggestions for Apple for lack of viruses and Blue screen, which is also what I'm thinking. I think he mostly wants to surf the internet, and possibly use it to store his music on. That said, I don't think we're talking about TB of music here.
As far as learning goes, he's trying to get away with learning as little as possible
I told him a Mac would be good for that, but he'll pay for it. Also, doesn't apple have pretty good support in stores to fix things when they do break?
I probably disqualified myself from further contributing to this thread by forgetting that Mom's iPad thinks of itself as an add-on to Dad's computer, but I can still say that my experiences with Apple's tech support have all been good.
Personally, I don't use CL to format drives, even when using Linux (where i'm in and out of terminal with much more frequency.) The last time I used CL to format a new drive was when I was still using Win95 in 1999. That said, my point isn't GUI vs. CL, it's that the Windows control panel is a bloated mess that needs to die in a fire. I'm not saying it's impossible to do anything via either CL or GUI but would you really send someone who's never even learned to type to the command line to do anything?
Yes, that is the default view, but digging into anyone of those options presents it's own set of what I believe are design flaws.
Again, Windows isn't unusable, and obviously Microsoft has been doing some great work in usability, but arguing that, at it's core, Windows is more friendly for an absolute computer novice is crazy. I believe that most of us have been using computers for most of our lives, we're used to a lot of quirks in all of the various OS', but seeing relatives and even friends (who are the go-to tech guys for their own family) struggle when Windows chokes itself is frustrating.
Overall my point is simply that for the person Nerdtastic is describing, a Mac of some kind would be the better option. Remember, i'm not suggesting what to buy for any of us, i'm not saying a novice can't learn Windows, simply that the majority won't put in the effort to do so. Unless he's in a financial hole I don't think he'll scoff at the base price of a Mini, but if money and simplicity are concerns, i'd poke around HP or Dell's site and look for a cheap laptop with a display size he's comfortable with using.
Living in a nightmare hellride.
Or buy an old Amiga.
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Elewis17 wrote:
I don't think anyone was, apart from 7 being friendlier than prior releases.
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I talked to him again, and he doesn't plan on having a lot of movies, maybe a little music but not much. He mostly wants to surf the web and watch videos. He said porn, actually, to which I said "well, than we can throw the ipad idea out." Not sure how much he was joking. 55 year old gay man told me he wants to "craigslist".
i think he wants a laptop, and the mac laptops are actually not bad. i thought they ran a little more expensive. Actually, now i'm kinda thinking, hmmm, when my little Asus dies, maybe i should finally become a Mac owner... i'm sure demiurge would approve
iPad is plenty good for porn. Most "porntube" sites have re-encoded in h.264 and created HTML5 interfaces for the iPad.
I mean, so I've been told.
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My sister just bought a laptop. I told her to get the new HP Dm1z with AMD's new Fusion APU. It won't quite have the performance of a Macbook Air 11", but it costs less than half as much. She got the 3GB memory version for 420 on sale via techbargains.com. The performance and battery life seems really great on these things.
I can't wait to try it out.
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Yeah, I've ummm heard the same thing.
You still need another computer for the iPad though.
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Mystic Violet wrote:
Not if you go to an Apple Store. The iPad only needs a computer for initial activation, and they will do that for you at the Apple Store if you ask for it.
Beyond that, you only need a computer to install updates, which aren't critical, and I wouldn't be surprised if you could get the Apple Store to help you with that too.
Access to a computer at work (that iTunes can be installed on) or a friend's computer is sufficient to fill the computer requirement as well. Don't have to actually own one yourself.
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Build quality on the Mac laptops is top notch. If you want a similar build quality in a windows machine, you will pay for it in something like a thinkpad.
Get him the mac laptop, show him redtube, ? profit.
pretend boogle wrote:
drdoak wrote:
Legion beat me to it.
I've hooked my iPad to a computer only a few times. The last time was to jailbreak it. Now I can do everything I want from the iPad itself.
Obviously this guy's not going to jailbreak anything, but they'll activate the ipad for him at an apple store and then he'll be just fine.
In watching my mother attempt to operate a laptop and an ipad, the ipad wins hands down.
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Updated Macbooks have come out, which means the previous iteration will be discounted to clear room at the big electronics stores. Now would be a great time to pick up a powerful laptop on the relative cheap.
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Or a macbook!
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